Harris Boys East Dulwich

[intexasatthe moment]

Kylie - that's awful for you and him .

How's he going to learn anything if he feels like that ?

Sadly discipline always seems to be the corner stone in schools trying to establish themseves/turn themselves around .

They seem to treat all the children the same - as if they're all feral hoodlums who have to be broken.

They don't seem able to treat children as individuals .

You must make sure that the school understand how much this is impacting on his learning - how are they going to help him ?

He's just as important as all the potential troublemakers that they're trying to mold .

[BB100]

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

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>> They don't seem able to treat children as

> individuals .

Kingsdale does. But if Michael Gove gets his way and inducts retired military personnel into schools (which he is planning to do) then we'll have more schools like this.

[The Nappy Lady]

If bullying is not being addressed this needs to be dealt with, whether it be via the school governors, or by a group of parents approaching the head teacher. My understanding is that bullying is now taken extremely seriously in all schools, if they are not dealing with it appropriately this needs to be resolved, with a clear policy put in place, in writing.

Overall I like the idea of a school being fairly strict, but I wonder if some of the emphasis is being put on the wrong things. No personal experience so can't really comment.

[DenmotherSmith]

My son has also been offered a place at Harris boys, it was our fifth choice and although I was very disappointed he is rather excited as many of his friends from primary school are going. I am trying to embrace the idea! I decided to attend their parent forum meeting this week (for parents of current pupils) and was impressed with the open free discourse between parents and staff (the head and assistant principal were present) the non defensive attitude to criticisms and desire to action on parent concerns. Interestingly their resident Police Officer , whom I'd always noticed outside, and had lead me to assume they must be a wayward bunch, reported that the main security problem is the high level of muggings the boys have been victims of, mainly committed by older boys from Kingsdale!

I think Harris boys has the potential to be a very good school,it needs more local boys to attend, to expand it's appeal to the middle classes of Dulwich with perhaps more focus on the performing arts/creativity etc. It is VERY strict, they have a zero tollerrence to 'cussing', boys heard cussing are subjected to a three hour saturday morning detention. I am rather wary of the discipline factor, but my rational is if he behaves as is requested of him he won't be subjected to it.

Also no class has over 25 pupils, the average class size is 23 and they are in the process of securing athenlay fc ground as their sport ground Monday to Friday, with Harris financing an overhaul of the facilities there, so there are lots of positives and room for improvement.

[mrs.lotte]

As the mum of a 6 year old boy I am watching this school with interest and hoping that ED does indeed get behind it and actually send their children to this local school. I, for one, would be really interested to hear how everyone gets on. Keep us posted.

[ladywotlunches]

I only have a primary age boy too, so have no direct experience of the older children, but I too like the sound of strictness in a school. Like DenMotherSmith says, if the boys behave then they aren't subjected to discipline. Sounds pretty much like the 'old days' when I went to school. Personally I think some schools have gone too far the other way and are soft on 'feisty' children, allowing them more freedom, which in turn hasn't helped them in society. (But this could turn into a much larger debate).

I'm also watching with interest to see what happens with Harris Boys, and I hope it gets local support. It would be the ideal option for us (until my baby girl gets to secondary age, and Harris Girls has got a LOT of catching up to do if I were to ever consider her going there :) )

[kylie6097]

my boy came home yesterday evening telling me he had a row with another lad of which he turnt to making pig noises and the other boy said something back so both got put into a 3hour saturday detention, now i agree the school need to knuckle down but none of you can surely tell me this is resonable grounds for a 3 hour detention.

[taper]

Have you heard about Mossbourne Academy in Hackney? It's run along similar lines from what I can tell, with a strong focus on dscipline. And its results, in an area far more deprived than ED, and on the site where the once great Hackney Downs collapsed into sink school status, are jaw-dropping.

[toast]

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

> Sadly discipline always seems to be the corner

> stone in schools trying to establish

> themseves/turn themselves around .

It is also the cornerstone of all good and outstanding well established schools, it makes kids feel safe!

[BB100]

ladywotlunches Wrote:

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> but I too

> like the sound of strictness in a school.

Well the first cohort of parents did too when they heard the discipline measures at their first meeting prior to the school starting. They clapped. But when their kids started they didn't like their own kids being told off which I think is indicative of parents in general today.

[new mother]

Thrilled to learn of Harris strictness and of standards being maintained in a school. Many of these boys, and inner city boys in general, lack proper male role models and an element of discipline will go SOME way to providing that.

I also hope that proper grammar, parsing and use of language are being taught. I am constantly surprised to encounter young professionals who have very poor grammar and no idea when to take a new sentence or use appropriate punctuation.

I am totally behind Gove on introducing military style discipline in schools, if it is needed. I am sick of hearing of enthusiastic and able children being held back by semi-feral spoilt brats from all sections of society who have been brought up by either doting or absent parents - weirdly, it seems to come to the same thing - to think that the world revolves around them. The same type of teenager whinges that he/she cannot get a job after doing irrelevant A levels or spending three years doing something of no good to man nor beast at university.

Go Harris!

[Lukedaisy]

Very true new mother. I just hope they dont pick on the wrong kids ( the ones who dont deserve to be punished) by using them as scapegoats for the ones they can not control. Time will tell .

[dollydaydream]

If Harris school is giving out 3hour detentions for what seems like a verbal squabble when 1 hour detention would have done then what if it is a bigger problem what happens then, it's like cracking a nut with a sledge hammer, if it is a more serious problem where do you go with the detention?? It seems the teacher has over reacted.

[BB100]

dollydaydream Wrote:

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if it is a

> more serious problem where do you go with the

> detention??

Isolation. Exclusion.........

At all Harris schools the punishments are cumlatative so a 3 hour detention for a small offence would only be given after a few shorter detentions for other minor offences have been served. The small detentions are wiped clean at the end of each term but the longer ones will continue to count. I think that's how it goes but ask any Harris child and they will be able to explain it in much detail. However at crystal palace they don't hand them out like sweets like the boys school do.

[intexasatthe moment]

However at crystal palace they don't hand them out like sweets like the boys school do.

They hand them out like sweets at the boys schools ?

Do they ,why would that be ?

And why the difference ?

[alice]

nothing wrong with strictness as long as its fair and seen to be fair by the boys

[Curmudgeon]

there is a difference between strict and regimented

happy for my children to go to a strict school but only one where they learn to self-moderate too

I think, from what I hear, that Harris Boys has the balance of discipline against carrot wrong for the demographics of this area

[skyblue]

I wish Harris Boys the very best and hope that it becomes an excellent school.

All the comments I have heard from people who live near the school are how well behaved the boys are.

One parent has said that it is like a private education with the small class sizes and good discipline. Just wish it was co-ed.

[DenmotherSmith]

skyblue Wrote

Just wish it was co-ed.

Me too! That was the long ago starry eyed ideal of Harris Boys and Girls being a federated wonderland of co-ed bliss.........

But hey-ho my son is off to a boys school and thats the way it is. On the upside my mother lives in Norfolk where only public schools are single sex, so she thinks Harris Boys sounds terribly fancy and is announcing her grandsons place there to anyone who'll listen...........

[cuppa tea]

new mother Wrote:

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> Thrilled to learn of Harris strictness and of

> standards being maintained in a school. Many of

> these boys, and inner city boys in general, lack

> proper male role models and an element of

> discipline will go SOME way to providing that.

>

> I also hope that proper grammar, parsing and use

> of language are being taught. I am constantly

> surprised to encounter young professionals who

> have very poor grammar and no idea when to take a

> new sentence or use appropriate punctuation.

>

> I am totally behind Gove on introducing military

> style discipline in schools, if it is needed. I am

> sick of hearing of enthusiastic and able children

> being held back by semi-feral spoilt brats from

> all sections of society who have been brought up

> by either doting or absent parents - weirdly, it

> seems to come to the same thing - to think that

> the world revolves around them. The same type of

> teenager whinges that he/she cannot get a job

> after doing irrelevant A levels or spending three

> years doing something of no good to man nor beast

> at university.

>

>

> Go Harris!

Just really glad you're not running a school! You're not are you?

What makes a good school and well behaved pupils surely has to also involve respect for the kids, stimulating and well taught lessons and supportive and loving parents being very involved in their kids education and development.

[BB100]

I think new mother is friends with David Starkey (Jamie Oliver's Dream school)

[citizenED]

I really hope that new mother is so in name only...

[Ann]

Newmother had a point I think, both my primary and secondary schools were hot on discipline.

I do think there are problems with un-challenged children at all ends of the social spectrum. When I was at school,we were sometimes smacked with a ruler, at my senior school boys could be caned until the law was changed, (1970's).

I have never sat in a class where I was prevented from learning due to unruly pupils; we had a pretty good relationships with our teachers but we had to show respect. Sometimes it seems the kids want the respect without earning it or really undrestanding what it really means, it's a two way street.

Some of you are being a little naive about the children teachers can be faced with, in my opinion. For a lot of Dulwich kids secondary transfer can be a bit of a shock.

[BB100]

Nothing wrong with discipline, my eldest regulary complains I'm too strict - it's the assumption that any disruptive pupil is semi-feral ignores that behaviour is contextual. The fact there are so many disruptive children in the education system needs some reflection on the system as an institution itself and not just locating the problem with parenting. In the many schools I have visited I see children already turned off from learning from aged 5 becuase of their early experiences of education.

[toast]

DenmotherSmith Wrote:

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> skyblue Wrote

>

> Just wish it was co-ed.

>

> Me too! That was the long ago starry eyed ideal of

> Harris Boys and Girls being a federated wonderland

> of co-ed bliss......

Me 3!