To the man that asked my 6 year old to cycle on the road

[intexasatthe moment]

Rendle I take your point and my description was sloppy .My mother didn't walk along the cycle way or use it as an extension of the pavement but she did walk across it when crossing the road .

She was always anxious that she wouldn't be able to see or hear a bike fast enough to give way to them .Possibly she should have walked back to the corner of Hanover and crossed at the lights at Primark . But no one else does .

And unfortunately not all cyclists stick to the bike way but veer off on to the pavement to overtake/undertake .

Edited to say that my mum was well aware of the bike way ( or whatever it's called ) as I discussed with her my concerns and my response reflecting them to the consultation that proceeded it's introduction .I also raised the matter on here but no one seemed concerned and JB was in favour as was the cycle group ( a formal association ,local ,can't remember name ) .

All my family have cycled since toddlerhood,parents ,aunts and uncles riding tandems to Brighton and I used to love cycling . Sadly I don't think London's roads are very suitable for use by large numbers of cyclists .

[intexasatthe moment]

" most of these conflicts won't be conflicts with a little courtesy and common sense on both sides."

that would work if all things were equal eg age ,health ,faculties ,intellectual grasp . Young children often lack the maturity,awareness and insight necessary to appreciate the impact of their actions on more vulnerable people .

And because pavements are generally not wide enough to allow parents to be beside a child on a bike or scooter it is often the case that the child encounters an impediment in the form of a pedestrian ahead of the accompanying adult .

And while I am NOT suggesting that this was the case here I also believe that young children ( and many adults ) think they've done the right thing by saying "excuse me " and expecting the person to move aside while they proceed rather than stopping and waiting for a response . It's very tempting to carry on when on a bike as pausing means loss of balance and all impetus .

[rendelharris]

I could conversely say London's roads certainly aren't suitable for the current volume of motor traffic - given that there are very few places the roads can be widened, the only solution is to reduce motor traffic.

Sympathize with all your points re Rye Lane, ideally there should be a raised kerb (with plenty of gaps for wheelchairs etc) to stop stupid cyclists using the pavement for overtakes, and maybe a zebra halfway down to allow people like your mother to cross in safety.

[intexasatthe moment]

Bring back horse and cart I say -)

[keano77]

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

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> Bring back horse and cart I say -)

They would be too fast for the current 20 mph zones

[edhistory]

keano77 Wrote:

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>

> The velocipede appeared in 1865, and had pedals

> applied to the front wheels.

Thank you for the two pictures of velocipedes and the confirmation that bone-shakers were not cycles.

[rendelharris]

edhistory Wrote:

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> Thank you for the two pictures of velocipedes and

> the confirmation that bone-shakers were not

> cycles.

They may have been called velocipedes at the time, but any history of the bicycle will show you that the boneshaker is regarded as the first proper bicycle, being the first two-wheeled conveyance powered by pedals.

[Muley]

Louisa Wrote:

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> This thread has simply become rather ridiculous.

>

> Considerate youngsters can ride bikes on

> pavements, nothing to see here folks.

Blimey, for once I find myself in agreement with Louisa.

And edhistory, speaking of legality what about the (usually ignored) legal obligation of drivers to observe the speed limit and to be considerate of other road users? Could that be why parents have their children cycling on the pavement? It's simple cause and effect, so if you want to make an issue of legality then perhaps start here.

Personally when out walking I've never experienced anything but courtesy and consideration from kids and their parents cycling on the pavement, and I walk very slowly and unsteadily on crutches (due incidentally to a catastrophic spinal cord injury caused by a car turning suddenly into my path when cycling).

[Westnorwoodboy]

Personally I find ignorant people walking along looking at their mobile devices and expecting everyone to move out of their way more annoying than a 6 year old enjoying life cycling on a pavement.....

[Sqiggles]

I have no problem with young children cycling on the pavement - or older children/adults for that matter - so long as they respect the fact that pedestrians have the right of way. Cycling up behind a pedestrian and then ringing you bell in order to tell the pedestrian to give way is not, however, acceptable. A cheery excuse me and thank you is all that is required....

[rendelharris]

Sqiggles Wrote:

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> I have no problem with young children cycling on

> the pavement - or older children/adults for that

> matter - so long as they respect the fact that

> pedestrians have the right of way. Cycling up

> behind a pedestrian and then ringing you bell in

> order to tell the pedestrian to give way is not,

> however, acceptable. A cheery excuse me and thank

> you is all that is required....

...and yet cycling on the Royal Military Canal path recently (shared cycle/footpath) my polite call of "Excuse me sir, can I just come past on your right?" was greeted with "Don't %^&*ing shout at me, why haven't you got a ^&*%ing bell?" Can't please everyone, it seems!

[edhistory]

rendelharris Wrote:

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>

> They may have been called velocipedes at the time,

> but any history of the bicycle will show you that

> the boneshaker is regarded as the first proper

> bicycle, being the first two-wheeled conveyance

> powered by pedals.

Here's the legislation.

Cycles and velocipedes are separate classes of carriage.

[rendelharris]

Yep, because in Britain a velocipede became the exclusive word for a push-along balance bike - elsewhere it covered bicycles as well. Hence in French "velo" and "bicyclette" are interchangeable.

[natty01295]

ITs too dangerous for children to be on the roads,

even with hi vis jacket, lights

Children should be allowed to ride on the pavement and enjoy themselves

[intexasatthe moment]

But it's not just young children that should be able to enjoy themselves .

Many people have some infirmity ( mobility ,sight ,hearing ) that makes sharing a pavement with a cyclist at the least a major source of anxiety and at worst a danger .

[jimbo1964]

When my son was little he'd ride on the pavement down to the park while I rode on the road. When we encountered a pedestrian we stopped and passed safely. Now he's confident he rides on the road in front of me. If we're all considerate to each other it's amazing how we can all muddle along.

[Jeremy]

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

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> Many people have some infirmity ( mobility ,sight

> ,hearing ) that makes sharing a pavement with a

> cyclist at the least a major source of anxiety and

> at worst a danger .

It's unfortunate, but to be blunt I'm not sure it's an adequate reason to effectively stop young children cycling.

As jimbo - and others - have said, the key is to teach children on bikes and scooters to stop for pedestrians.

[Penguin68]

No child should be allowed into any public transit space (in which I include pavements but exclude park areas, which I accept are for recreation) without being in proper control of their mode of transport, be it a bike or skates or a skateboard or whatever.

Where they are in control then they also need to be taught proper consideration for other users of their shared space. People walking may choose to make way for e.g. cyclists - they should not be forced to.

That consideration and fore-thought (and ability to anticipate actions of other space users) will serve them in good stead once they venture onto roads.

I have absolutely no issue with children on bikes using pavements - clearly modern roads are genuinely dangerous for the young - I have huge issues over cyclists (of any age) who put pedestrians into danger or force them to give way. A fall for an elderly person can be devastating, and the elderly are therefore much more frightened of being precipitated into a fall than someone younger and fitter (who anyway is much more able to take necessary avoiding action).

NOBODY should have to avoid a cyclist on a pavement.

[bkkmei]

The other week whilst walking my two young kids to school (one on each hand) a cyclist coming the other way on the pavement told us to 'f****** move over'. (To which I told him he shouldn't be cycling on the pavement. Of course - long out of earshot by then).

He is one I see regularly on the pavement and comes at full speed, expecting everyone to jump out of his way. I usually spot him in advance and make way, but with the sun in my eyes and talking with the kids, didn't spot him until very late. Wondering if I should report him, but then think the police probably have many other things to deal with than this.

[sally buying]

Do not wait until someone gets injured.

Just do it

[Applespider]

natty01295 Wrote:

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> ITs too dangerous for children to be on the

> roads,

> even with hi vis jacket, lights

Since this thread started, I've spotted a few youngsters (8 or under) on the roads with their parents ahead/behind/alongside and have been delighted to see drivers being very patient, hanging back and giving them lots of room. Really good to see and perhaps reassuring to parents considering shepherding their kids on the roads.

bkkmei, that's dreadful behaviour - not just the cycling at speed on the pavement but the swearing at kids. Without kids, I'd be tempted to stand my ground and make him slow down and ask politely while reminding him where he should be. But I appreciate with kids that might not be an option that you're comfortable taking. If it happens regularly at a similar time, I'd report it on 101. The police can decide whether it's a priority or not but if he ever does injure someone, at least there will be a record of his antisocial behaviour.

[edhistory]

As it was in 1885, so it is in 2017.

There is a law intended to protect pedestrians from cyclists.

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

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> But it's not just young children that should be

> able to enjoy themselves .

>

> Many people have some infirmity ( mobility ,sight

> ,hearing ) that makes sharing a pavement with a

> cyclist at the least a major source of anxiety and

> at worst a danger .

[edcam]

This is exactly how it should work. If everyone did this, there wouldn't be a problem.

jimbo1964 Wrote:

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> When my son was little he'd ride on the pavement

> down to the park while I rode on the road. When we

> encountered a pedestrian we stopped and passed

> safely. Now he's confident he rides on the road in

> front of me. If we're all considerate to each

> other it's amazing how we can all muddle along.

[Jules-and-Boo]

bkkmei - make a video of him and tell the police. Try and get his face.

[bkkmei]

Thanks for the advice here. I haven't seen him this past week and think he may have slightly adjusted his timing earlier to avoid us (since the incident I make it really obvious to him we are moving out of his way and tell my kids in a loud voice to watch out for the (mean) cyclist).

So if I do see him again I will contact 101.

Videoing would have to be very surreptitious - he's quite a well built bloke and not one to mess around with.