the peoples supermarket

[louisiana]

bodsier Wrote:

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> WHAT WORKSHOP ARE YOU REFERRING TO? I WOULD LIKE

> TO COME, WHERE AND WHEN PLEASE LOUISIANA?

I've dropped a line to you about this bodsier, with specific info, though I have no idea whether they have any places left...

But for anyone that's interested and cannot for whatever reasons come to this event, I promise to report back fully. Sue is holding me to that! :)

And if there's enough local demand, I'm happy to run/host something locally in a cascade stylee in my front room :-)

[languagelounger]

Isn't there one already, the Co-op?

The Co-op Group - Membership

[louisiana]

Yes, well there is one, but it doesn't function as it should, as you'd notice if you tried to use either the co=op pharma or the co-op food store on LL. See my previous posts on co-op pharama.

[nylonmeals]

Someone earlier posted about the co-operative people's supermarket in brooklyn - just wanted to share two links, the first is an explanation of how it worked (i used to live close by)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park_Slope_Food_Coop

A friend wrote about it for (obviously) The Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/2006/mar/16/food.usa

Interesting stuff.

[zeban]

Thanks Nylonmeals, the article was very interesting.

There's also a programme on channel 4 tonight at 8pm called 'The People's Supermarket'

[languagelounger]

Just that as there are already two Co-op stores and a Co=op chemist in se22, if all the people expressing interest exercised their right to join the existing Co-op, could they not influence it, rather than trying to start all over again? The Co-op movement was founded to defend ordinary people from vicious greedy b******* but having defeated the Greed monster it seems it was consumed by the Vanity monster since as soon as the masses had a bit of cash form the 1960s on they abandoned the Co-op mostly out of snobbery.

What was the Co-op building at the bottom of Rye Lane now houses a Pay Day loan company, a bookies and a Tesco.

It's quite curious that we are so unconscious of our own history that most people have no idea what the Co-op is or how or where the Co-op movement was founded, and that the source of inspiration quoted here is Brooklyn. I know ED is nothing if it is not pretentious, but honestly....toooo much. I don't suppose anyone here is going to admit to having visited and been impressed by a co-op in Rochdale, for instance?

[Alec John Moore]

I take your point LanguageLounger about the Co-op and I think they have been promoting membership more, lately. I remember my mum talking about "the divvie" when I was a kid. I don't remember the principles of common ownership being taken to heart in the way the founders of the movement clearly did. I wonder if the good shoppers of ED have any faith in a big organisation like the Co-op to respond to their wishes regarding stock and stock levels. I wrote to the Co-op via their website, prompted by the infamous EDF "Waitrose" thread and haven't heard anything. It is also understandable that people would want to consider taking matters into their own hands by creating an alternative when a faceless or unresponsive retailer is not meeting their needs. I think I would agree with you that my preferred route would be to influence the Co-op but the two approaches are not mutually exclusive. Incidentally, I started a photography project in Nottingham in the 1980s and one of my compatriots must have had a real internal struggle with his involvement since he was actually a socialist worker who was obsessed with photography. Eventually he confessed that he viewed the co-op we set up as bourgeois diversionism. I think he was right in the case of our project.

[languagelounger]

You've lost me a bit at the end there AJM. For me the point is that the opportunity is there for people to become members of the Co-op (every time you go in they ask if you have a membership card) and to influence how it operates.

The Co-op bank was revitalised and hasn't asked for any bail outs from the public, so it's obviously well run.

So perhaps the food stores and pharmacy could be sparked up a bit too? They're clearly wasting the potential of the supermarket and the chemists on LL at the moment, how anyone could get stock so wrong/waste so much space is pretty hard to understand.

[Pugwash]

having seen the programme on C4 tonight - I think this sounds like a good scheme - I am sure even the busiest of us all can sign up for 4 hours a month.

[SparkyUK]

Um, I'm from New York, and not Rochdale. The reason I brought up the Brooklyn coop is becuase the People's Supermarket is based on /inspired by that model. Sheesh.

I also think comparing the Co-op to a local cooperative market is completely disingenuous. Having a points card for a supermarket with 3000 outlets is not the same as being involved in a community driven enterprise. For the record, I do have a Co-op membership and no, I still don't think it's the same thing.

[Alec John Moore]

Sorry if I wasn't very clear in my last post. I reckon I'm agreeing with both language and Sparky. It is possible to influence big organisations and I will join the Co-op to see if I can contribute to that. However, I still like the idea of getting involved in a locally-run enterprise where I would, arguably, have more say in what is stocked, where it is sourced from and how it could be responsive to the needs and interests of its customers. I have used smile for yonks, part of the Co-operative Bank, and it has consistently provided a really good service. I also think that credit unions are a good idea and should be supported.

I look forward to reading Louisiana's report from the workshop she'll be attending this week.

[peterstorm1985]

I watched the Channel 4 programme last night but I didn't come away with a particularly positive feeling. The discount rate being offered didn't seem to be enough compared to the voluntary hours required. If I'm going to volunteer for 4 hours then I would expect to reduce my food bill by the equivalent amount that I would earn if I worked those 4 hours (even at minimum wage level the sum doesn't work). As a keen supporter of local shops I would want to continue to use the butcher and the fishmonger so the remainder of my monthly shopping simply isn't a high enough value. I wouldn't be too keen on this model if, to make it work, members stopped using any other food shops on Lordship Lane.

Alternatively, I might consider volunteering for a supermarket that stocked much higher quality and more interesting produce, equivalent to a farmers market, but I can see a conflict in what volunteers may want out of the shop. This appeared to be the case in the programme last night - one new member seemed very keen until she saw that prices didn't beat the local pound shop, and a few quizzical stares at the globe artichokes suggested that the demographics might not mean everyone wanted the same thing.

But I look forward to the report.

Re the Co-op, what about us trying to 'take it back'. I've started emailing, regularly, to complain about specific failures. I'm sure others do too, but if the number of complainers increased they would eventually take notice.

[zeban]

I agree with every single word of that peterstorm1985. After watching the programe I felt exactly the same:

peterstorm1985 wrote:

'The discount rate being offered didn't seem to be enough compared to the voluntary hours required. If I'm going to volunteer for 4 hours then I would expect to reduce my food bill by the equivalent amount that I would earn if I worked those 4 hours (even at minimum wage level the sum doesn't work). As a keen supporter of local shops I would want to continue to use the butcher and the fishmonger so the remainder of my monthly shopping simply isn't a high enough value. '

[mynamehere]

What about the part of the Channel 4 programme that showed the dairy farmer crying because the big supermarkets have forced him and others out of business by making him take loses because they undercut each other with unrealistically low prices to rope us into ignoring the reality of what sustainably produced food and correct animal welfare really costs? Sorry for the run-on sentence.

[Sue]

peterstorm1985 Wrote:

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> Re the Co-op, what about us trying to 'take it

> back'. I've started emailing, regularly, to

> complain about specific failures. I'm sure others

> do too, but if the number of complainers increased

> they would eventually take notice.

xxxxxxxx

Do you have the email address?

I wrote to them ages ago about various issues including the lack of free range chicken pieces, but had no reply.

[peterstorm1985]

Sue

I've generally been using the contact form on their website Co-op contact

The last reply I got was from [email protected] so it may be worth emailing her directly.

Mynamehere - I agree with you but if you're worried about the price of milk (it simply isn't enough to sustain traditional dairy farming) then why not just buy milk from a milkman or from smaller food shops e.g. SMBS. It's because the major supermarkets sell such a high volume of milk that they are able to wield such power, and in many cases use milk as a loss leader.

I split my post about 'the people's supermarket' into two (discount/higher quality) as I'm not convinced it can address both issues at once in the UK. Fair treatment of suppliers can only sit with higher quality so I guess success will depend on how many people are prepared to pay (whether it be in time or money) for their principles.

Hopefully, Lousiana's report will include that aspect.

[peterstorm1985]

mynamehere Wrote:

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> What about the part of the Channel 4 programme

> that showed the dairy farmer crying because the

> big supermarkets have forced him and others out of

> business....

Sorry to go off topic a little but some might be interested in this quote from a National Farmers Union meeting in November 2010 which complained bitterly about the supermarkets' treatment of farmers. Except perhaps for one....

"Am I pleased that the Coop have made a commitment to set up a dedicated supply chain? Of course I am. Via dedicated supply chains 20 to 25 per cent of dairy farmers are receiving better prices."

I don't know how far this has gone but any 'member' of the Co-op can go to the members meeting in Croydon on 7th May and ask.

[Sue]

Thanks for the contact info, PeterStorm, that's very useful.

[languagelounger]

Are the London stores franchises - like this?:-

The Grocer - Southern Co-op to offer franchises

[peterstorm1985]

languagelounger Wrote:

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> Are the London stores franchises - like this?:-

>

> The Grocer - Southern Co-op to offer franchises

>

I don't believe so; the last email I got from them (after I made a complaint) said they were passing the detail onto their area Operations manager, so I would take that to mean that the LL branch is part of the core business

[Tara]

I also watched the people's supermarket programme and was shocked by the amount of waste supermarkets produce and saddened by the dairy farmer's story - it definately made me think twice about shopping at a supermarket. However, I'm not entirely convinced by the people's supermarket idea. We have a great high street here and maybe the answer is to make better use of it - and to write to the big supermarkets to let them know why our business is going elsewhere. Convenience is the main reason why I shop at Sainsburys and if there was a way i could shop conveniently in the high street I would definately do that. Whay about a scheme where you can order from all the different shops and someone packs it all together for you and delivers it to you - sort of like the supermarket internet home delivery schemes but using the local shops?

[SparkyUK]

Tara, I was thinking the same thing. My problem with the local shops is that if you can't do your shopping by 5 then you often can't use the independents. I had considered something like you said, or even if there was a pick up point where you collected your goods in the evening or on the weekend. (I know a most of them are open on Saturday, but that's a family day for us and I don't want to drag everyone around the shops.)

It's true though that East Dulwich is already very well served for food outlets and I wonder if somewhere like West Dulwich where they are a bit further from any big supermarkets and only have the one butchers and a tesco local might be a better location. Or, Crystal Palace seems to have a lot of foodies but only a Sainsburys.

[peterstorm1985]

Saturdays can be far too busy to shop locally and a lot of us can't get to the shops during the working day so the supermarket can become a necessity for some. But the problem with any scheme to resolve this is that it will cost more money for the shopkeeper and I doubt there'd be enough return for them to swallow the costs themselves. Also, although it would be great if you could pick up your shopping at the end of the day, where would it all be stored - most of the local shops are short of space already?

The only thing I could think of is a late day once a week. If all the shops could be convinced to open 2 hours later in the morning and close 2 hours later (so still keeping the same day length) then it could make things easier for a lot of residents. Of course, this would need the shop staff to be happy with the new arrangement.

[Alec John Moore]

It has always seemed to me that convenience is a major factor in deciding how and where we shop. Just got this newsletter from the Streetbank people - www.streetbank.com

"Collaborative Consumption

Dear Alec

Earlier this week Sam attended a conference on ?collaborative consumption? ? the idea that we can live better lives if we share our things and our time. It looked at some of the most interesting new examples of this ? whipcar.com which allows you to rent your car to your neighbour, crashpadder.com which allows you to rent a room in your house to a visitor and taskrabbit.com where you can be paid to run an errand for your neighbour. The big of question of the day was around trust. How does it develop? Two points emerged ? that once people had tried trusting once, they were much more inclined to trust again.. and again and again. The second is the importance of leaving feedback. Many of the websites have developed sophisticated ebay feedback systems. We haven?t yet but plan to develop this area a bit. In the meantime, if you have interacted with anyone on Streetbank it makes a big difference if you leave feedback on their page afterwards &nd ash; the streetbank system is very basic but your endorsement helps to build a picture of who other members are.

Cheers,

Sam, Ryan, Nic and Cath"

[bodsier]

yes i watched the program and ageee with peterstorm. I couldn't see the point un trying to model a supermarket when you cant compete wirh prices and variety. Taking into account convenient shopping times, i think a model based on weighing ad buying your grain and plses etc and selling locally home made non refridgerated goods may be tne way to go.i would not want to to responsible for putting any small shops out if business. Maybe its about supermarkets not having a monopoly. If grain is cheaper, then perhaps people sill shop at other local shops more as would be more convenient. I know i spent next to nothing tis way and rarely shopped in supermarkets. They are not always cheaper. Selling cleaning products anc tins of beans can be left to ghe supermarkts and poples market can sell grain and some our our home grown produce hen i season? We can hve our own model just use aspects of the concept. Something to discuss in a meeting. it can ablways develop into more later. Louisana maybe we can have a meeting with all interested parties. Count me in excuse the typos....typed on mobile....not an iphone