How can we improve our community

[dazeykat]

CitizenEd - you're quite right. It's only by all of us using those local amenities that make a community; libraries, your milkman, independent shops and so on, that they can continue to exist in these straitened times. If we value them, we should use them.

[ClaireClaire]

Hello

I work with kids aged 13-16 who are in foster care

Many of them have come from severely disadvantaged backgrounds, and a lot of them go down the wrong road... e.g. have been excluded from schools and are no longer in education, are involved in gangs and crime etc

It's very sad and also fascinating to see how the whole thing plays out, and to pinpoint exactly where these kids take a wrong turn, or how the local services make a difference (or not).

It's also been particularly fascinating for me, as many of the young people I work with have spoken to me openly about gangs and crime etc, and it's really interesting to hear it all from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

There are potentially things that volunteers could do to help, in my opinion, and improve these children's outcomes, even if only slightly.

I'm totally swamped with work right now so I can't commit much at all time-wise, but if anyone is serious about the original topic mentioned in this thread and would like to discuss the next step, then I'm happy to be contacted.

Claire

[Pearson]

citizenED Wrote:

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> How about registering at and then using your local

> library.

Tick

> How about buying milk from a milkman.

Tick

> What about organising a street party in the

> Summer.

Tick

____________________________________

One murder a year (generalization/average) doesn't equal bad community and failure!

Sorry, i think it's about time something positive was said.

All of the above suggestions, we've done them all.

I think we have a truly excellent community here!

Our street parties have even become annual camping trips!!

We have at least 12 set of keys in our house for various

neighbours on our stretch of the road.

At least 18 'dads' on our road go for drinks almost bi-monthly.

East Dulwich is a great place to live,

I honestly find it hard to think of things that would improve on that!!

Lets keep some perspective please.

[sillywoman]

citizenED Wrote:

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> How about registering at and then using your local

> library.

> How about buying milk from a milkman.

> What about organising a street party in the

> Summer.

Well CitizenED, Whilst I wholeheartedly agree with you I have been made a little cynical since living here. This is why;

I do try & use the library but confess to being crap at it- no cynicism just crapness on my part.

We have recently had to cancel our order with the milkman after 15 years of good service. Some nasty little scroat had taken to helping himself to our milk. As there are 6 of us this meant losing between 6 & 8 pints of milk a time. This went on for about a month. They always came on a different day and despite my other half staying up all night twice and the milkman being on red alert we decided that we either had to cancel the milk or buy a spy cam. So the milk delivery went and is very much missed. So, sadly for us, certain members of this 'community' have made using a milkman now impossible for us. Oh, and to add insult to injury they left all the empty bottles from the milk they stole on the path outside our front gate one morning. Still, I suppose I should be grateful that they washed them. At least they're clean thieves.

We had a great street party 8 years ago & there was a lot of support to make it a regular even. Sadly the amount Southwark would charge us to close the road means it is an impossible dream (the fee was waived for the jubilee).

Sorry to rain on your parade C-ED.:(

[louisiana]

HLL, when you say that people should @#$%& off, could you clarify a little? I'm particularly interested in the Sevenoaks perspective. Sevenoaks is, after all a community (albeit, not this one) and deserves some.... something.

I'd also be interested in your views on lies: who's telling them, what they are etc. We'd really be up for you world view, so to speak. In order to be able to frame your comments, you understand.

[Pearson]

Louisiana, Leave him be.. he's a wind up merchant who

appears to me to be jealous of our lovely community!

At least that's all a can deduce,

given that he's lurking around this forum.

(i can imagine it's quite lonely in the country?)

[Sue]

sillywoman Wrote:

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> We had a great street party 8 years ago & there

> was a lot of support to make it a regular even.

> Sadly the amount Southwark would charge us to

> close the road means it is an impossible dream

> (the fee was waived for the jubilee).

>

xxxxxxxx

I was involved with providing live music for a street party in Crystal Palace Road last Summer, and there were a number of other street parties on the same day in East Dulwich as it was all part of the Big Lunch.

Although I wasn't the organiser, I'm pretty sure Southwark didn't charge us anything to close the road, or at least not so much as to make it impossible to have the party.

We held a raffle to cover costs and to put towards this year's street party!

Edited to add: I totally agree that ED is a great place to live - indeed, there is another rather more positive thread elsewhere where people give their reasons for thinking the same.

[Keef]

hislordshiplane Wrote:

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> Hi all, as stated in my original thread, I was

> talking about communities as a whole. In addition

> I still own a place in ED which i rent out (pay

> council tax) and also have family that live in ED

> - surely that makes me able to comment. I see

> that keef and louisian govern this foram - are

> rude, post thousands of comments, print private

> messages and generally make their own rules.

Nope, don't govern, don't have any power whatsoever. And I don't print private messages, I mentioned one in which you seemed to be insulting me, unless I've misunderstood your razor sharp wit.

> I set up a seprate thread to talk about solutions,

> many of you commented but the same old nothing

> better to do people jumped on it - despite me

> saying that it was not to cause personal abuse.

Just incase you mean me, I was the 11th post on here, and I didn't say anything that wasn't directly to do with the subject you'd raised.

> maybe that is why we have problems, people just

> dont respect each other, and dont play by the

> rules.

>

> I have stated a few things that were taken out of

> context, that I have been educated on (i.e.

> listening to much to the media) for that i am

> sorry - for you lot having to listen to certain

> rambles from Keefy and his partner in dullness

> Lousiana I am sorry for that too

Not sure what rambles you're talking about, but there you go.

Sorry to be off topic, but being as this so called apology had mentioned me by name a couple of times, I thought I'd just address it. I have no desire to fall out with anyone, but your first pos on the other thread came over in a very bad light. Perhaps something was lost in translation, but if that was the case, you really couldn't have worded it any worse.

Anyway, with regards to improving the community, I think massive investment in youth projects, and advertising to the youth, making it seem cool and worth doing, and not "sad / pathetic". This won't happen though, especially in the current climate.

Obvious answer is getting knives off the streets, but I have no dea how that could be achieved to be honest.

[louisiana]

Keef Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> hislordshiplane Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Hi all, as stated in my original thread, I was

> > talking about communities as a whole. In

> addition

> > I still own a place in ED which i rent out (pay

> > council tax) and also have family that live in

> ED

> > - surely that makes me able to comment. I see

> > that keef and louisian govern this foram - are

> > rude, post thousands of comments, print private

> > messages and generally make their own rules.

>

> Nope, don't govern, don't have any power

> whatsoever. And I don't print private messages, I

> mentioned one in which you seemed to be insulting

> me, unless I've misunderstood your razor sharp

> wit.

Likewise, I believe the only PM I have quoted was (this evening) the one that said "@#$%& off" (without quotation marks), which unfortunately appears to be pretty standard fare these days...and which has also been forwarded to mods. There were others...

[acumenman]

To make this a better place means I presume, is restore law and order.

This can only be done by government who are busy cutting back on all services, and having a bunch of vigilantes is I believe illegal.

So unless you quadruple the police on bikes, on foot, in cars and over all hours of the day and night I would like to know what exactly can be achieved by this community.

[louisiana]

Pearson Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Louisiana, Leave him be.. he's a wind up merchant

> who

> appears to me to be jealous of our lovely

> community!

>

> At least that's all a can deduce,

> given that he's lurking around this forum.

> (i can imagine it's quite lonely in the country?)

Indeedy, who wouldn't be lonely in Sevenoaks, eh?

[Sue]

And there aren't even Seven Oaks any more .....

[civilservant]

as Sue says

Southwark council waived the cost of closing the street to have a Big Lunch street party, and we're hoping that they'll do the same this year. I've heard that we in Southwark are lucky because many other councils don't support community-building efforts in the same way.

you do have to convince the council of course that you can make a go of it!

lots of other things we can do to build a community - shop locally, use the library/local leisure centre/Peckham cinema, talk to neighbours, give up one's seat on public transport if someone else needs it, walk/cycle rather than drive, post on the EDForum :)) whatever...

[louisiana]

civilservant Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> lots of other things we can do to build a

> community - shop locally, use the library/local

> leisure centre/Peckham cinema, talk to neighbours,

> give up one's seat on public transport if someone

> else needs it, walk/cycle rather than drive, post

> on the EDForum :)) whatever...

Or indeed, as the OP suggested, move to Sevenoaks :)

[DJKillaQueen]

SOmething else that local people can do is to oppose plans toreduce/ merge the current SNT teams. Certainly the SNT team for Peckham Rye has had a huge impact on crime works very well with the local community to prioritise the right things. Any reduction in cover may well see an increase in crime.

Maybe some of the discussion should also be on how we keep the things that are working well, going?

[Ridgley]

We can improve our community with less bitching and biting on this forum for a start.

[Sue]

Ridgley Wrote:

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> We can improve our community with less bitching

> and biting on this forum for a start.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sadly bitching and biting are human nature and some people will always bitch and bite whether they are on a forum or not.

How others respond to the bitchers and biters is more to the point perhaps.

[JimJam]

Pearson, Keef and Claire you making really good points. I have a brother who is a social worker, and his view is that their has always been kids who cause trouble, its just that now it gets a lot more media attention, media attention that is aimed at not just covering a story but making it dramatic!! Kids to me just need attention - attention that is positive. They feel a knife or gun makes them the big man, this is because no one has told them that they have other qualities and spent time harnassing their qualities.

I think we could all do a bit more in the community, organising community days were we all facilitata events on sport/community, show them the dangers of what they are doing and consequences involvement to things like career advice!! get them to see the bigger picture

Also not trying to dramatise that Dulwich is a haven for crime - there are many amazing things about it and lets shout about them!!

[RosieH]

Regarding councils and road closures, all councils around the country are approached to waive the fee for road closures for the Big Lunch. If anyone's planning one for this year (still early yet, but early birds and all that) and having difficulty with the council, contact the Big Lunch for advice.

I think East Dulwich is spectacularly well-connected and engaged as a community. Projects like SNUB, the fact that we're discussing a people's supermarket, Admin's incredible and tireless work (supported by the lovely moderators of course) bring the community together via this forum, and the huge number of activities that people get involved in.

If people wanted to step it up a little, I agree with ClaireClaire, volunteering could be a way to go. Kids Company is a local charity that does outstanding work with the kind of disadvantaged young people who benefit the most from people showing they give a damn. They have mentoring schemes and volunteering work, ranging from working directly with the kids, to fundraising, to giving young mums a pampering treat, to a spot of decorating.

And for those of you with a more cocktails n high heels state of mind, there's a Kids Company night at Mahiki later this month (flyer attached).

[Huggers]

re KIDS COMPANY, I went to the Royal Academy exhibition on fashion this weekend and there is an extra (free entry)exhibition at the back of the academy from Kids Company. There are shoe boxes, each expressing the home life and the aspirational home life of a child made by the children. I found these very moving. More moving than the sad desperate backgrounds of these kids was their vision of something better, their hope that things could change and turn out OK.

The exhibiton also had some of the t- shirts and other clothes made by kids company kids on sale.

I highly recommend this exhibition, as for the first time I got a glimpse of the human hearts of the children who can get so swept up in the gang thing .

[genwilliams]

I think there are some sensible and human ideas in this post.

I would also like to see some of this kind of attitude being employed in schools with the more difficult kids. My mother runs the library at a school with a high number of quite troubled pupils, and finds her library being something of a sanctuary for kids avoiding other problems, and we were discussing something like this recently. Make them engage in something productive and/or creative, whether it's extra-curricular learning, gardening, or helping in the community. It might start as a form of detention for bad behaviour (a damn sight more instructive than the pointless and demeaning task of writing lines), but if rewards are implemented quite soon into the process, they could begin to see it not just as something they're being made to do, but something they can gain from, and it could become something they take pride in. It could be steered toward work placements/work experience/apprenticeships, or connect them to part time jobs (age dependent of course) to put money in their pockets. It would need the support of their parents and some teachers/folks in the community willing to get involved, but it might help.

Tarot Wrote:

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> I think system of punishment should change.

> Offenders that cannot read, should be given the

> chance to improve their life by being taught,and

> not released until they

> have mastered it,except in certain medical

> conditions,

> The incentive could be an early release on their

> succsess..

> Computers and games, tv should be removed from

> prisons, and more attention to lifestyle changes

> given/

> Any sign of close groups should be broken up, and

> constant moving from one task to another, should

> be implied,with work

> and skills for life training. Plenty of varied

> excercise and gardening.

> Give a man a skill,you make him a somebody,

> Being left to rot isnt healthy.Religous beliefs

> should be,kept privately in their cells.

> Only a suggestion. But goverments will say as

> usual..No money.

[zeban]

JimJam Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Pearson, Keef and Claire you making really good

> points. I have a brother who is a social worker,

> and his view is that their has always been kids

> who cause trouble, its just that now it gets a lot

> more media attention, media attention that is

> aimed at not just covering a story but making it

> dramatic!! Kids to me just need attention -

> attention that is positive. They feel a knife or

> gun makes them the big man, this is because no one

> has told them that they have other qualities and

> spent time harnassing their qualities.

>

> I think we could all do a bit more in the

> community, organising community days were we all

> facilitata events on sport/community, show them

> the dangers of what they are doing and

> consequences involvement to things like career

> advice!! get them to see the bigger picture

>

> Also not trying to dramatise that Dulwich is a

> haven for crime - there are many amazing things

> about it and lets shout about them!!

I think this is all very very true JimJam

[DJKillaQueen]

We try to do as much as we can through our TRA for all aspects of community cohesion. TRA's can be a very good means for doing things and the local council supports those that do a good job.

[acumenman]

Perhaps 'stocks' being erected on Goose Green for local acts of mindless vandalism and other "petty" crimes seemingly

too expensive for the judiciary to deal with effectively, might be a solution as a future deterrant.

Think of the media attraction for such a device, I suspect that figures for petty crime would plummet.

[*Bob*]

That's a great idea!

Think back to those "crime-free" golden days in "Medieval" england when the stocks were still in use and you got hanged for stealing a "chicken". We could have those days back again. That'll learn 'em.