Zip cars leaving vehicles in our road

[beigemartin]

"I think it must be, if they are "circumventing" paying charges and are losing their relationship with Southwark."

Couldn't they be circumventing the "great deal of money for each formal and reserved parking space" by paying a lesser amount for flexible use of the available parking?

[beigemartin]

But to be honest, if the parking on a given street is not charged I don't see why Zipcar should have to pay anyway.

* The cars are used by residents; why should a cost be created and then passed on to these residents when other car owners would not be paying?

* No other person who uses their vehicle for commercial purposes would be expected to pay

[Abe_froeman]

Every other business in the area pays business rates. That is effectively what he car club parking bay charge is. by parking for free outside the bays avis get to use our streets to run their business without paying the tax the rest of our local businesses pay.

If I was another car club operator I would not pitch for the bays knowing Avis can park and rent their cars wherever they want. If no other car clubs take up the bays because of this then the whole scheme is at the whim of avis.

[beigemartin]

Taxi companies, Uber, couriers, black cabs - none of these pay business rates and all use parking spaces.

"Southwark are also going to market again for their car sharing relationship. This would add extra pressure to insure against the loss of this relationship by Zipcar. "

I suspect Southwark have granted them temporary rights until they go 'to market'. He is suggesting that by giving them rights of use NOW it has increased the pressure on Zipcar to remain (presumably either by through the sunk cost of becoming active there, or by proving the value of Flex to themselves). I do not think he has suggested Avis will continue to have rights should they fail to come to an arrangement with Southwark.

[alex_b]

Abe_froeman Wrote:

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> Every other business in the area pays business

> rates. That is effectively what he car club

> parking bay charge is. by parking for free outside

> the bays avis get to use our streets to run their

> business without paying the tax the rest of our

> local businesses pay.

My neighbors park their vans that they use in the building trade on our street, we also occasionally have a burger van, ice cream van and other small commercial vehicles parked on our street. None of these are paying a special tax for the use of the road. Nor are the taxi and uber drivers who either live in our area or use our road as a waiting bay for local pickups.

If the zipcar approach takes off then a) this means that sufficient residents are using this instead of owning cars/second cars reducing the numbers of cars in the area b) there will be no need for special car club bays freeing up space for general parking. The only downside is that Southwark lose some tax revenue but I think the benefits to the overall community outweigh these costs.

[daveybigpotatoes]

Generally people who use Zipcar don't have a car. As such it seems perfectly reasonably to me for these folk to be able to park a hired car on the street near their house, or to leave a car there waiting for a new user.

This all equates to less cars on our streets on average.

[ianr]

I'm doubtful that they're doing anything actionable. They don't seem to be engaged in the "selling or exposing or offering for sale of any article", which could bring them within the Street Trading provisions of the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1982, http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1982/30/schedule/4 if Southwark have adopted them. Nor do they seem to fall within the nuisance parking provisions of the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005, http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/16/part/2/crossheading/nuisance-parking-offences, which stops businesses placing cars for _sale_ on the highway within 500 metres of each other. I doubt Zipcar are doing either. Are there any other possibilities?

Their accounts for the year to 31/12/2015, btw, declared an operating loss of ?3.5 million. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/04525217/filing-history

[jocher]

If you have a Zip Car that has been parked in your road for a week or so it is not likely to moved for at least a month when Zip Cars are launching a new scheme.

Please can you advise Louise Clarke from the Radio 4 You & Yours team who is interested in Zip Cars with advertising logos parking in residential streets. [email protected]

[edhistory]

Is the Oakhurst Grove one a fully liveried Zip-Car that is suspected of being used as advertising?

Mr Barber (IIRC) had some success in having advertising vehicles remove from East Dulwich Road.

[jocher]

Yes it is. I have e mailed Cllr Barber.

[OutOfFocus]

Are these zip cars not actually hireable. Perhaps someone with a zip account could check (ie see if they are available for hire).

[edhistory]

These are street advertisements if they are not for hire, even when they are parked in an approved bay.

[jocher]

Zip Cars told me this car is currently not for hire . Not until the new Flex scheme is introduced...sometime in the summer? They will not be moving the car until then. I don't see Oakhurst Grove as the perfect advertising location, but basically that is what they are doing I guess?

[Applespider]

As someone who is a target market for Zipcar, being able to leave it somewhere other than where it was collected from makes it hugely more appealing. If I choose to park it outside my house (or a friend's further afield) it is no different to other residents than if I was parking my own vehicle. Once scheme fully running, that space is likely to become free more quickly than if it depended on next time I needed to drive.

What doesn't seem clear is how Zipcar will ensure one doesn't end up abandoned or how they deal with a majority ending up in the wrong place (i.e. multiple users drive into town on a Saturday evening but take taxis home. How do the cars get redistributed back to where suburbia want them on Sunday morning?) The hire bike companies have trucks to help them get bikes to/from hotspots. Are Zipcar going to end up with shipping drivers around to spread cars back out or move those which are 'abandoned' in an unpopular location?

[Sally Eva]

We were members of Zipcar (we don't have a car) but found it didn't really work for us. We used the Zipvans and they seemed to be terribly popular -- we took stuff to the recycling centre and found about 5 other Zipvans there -- some used by "ordinary people" and some by tradesmen.

But in London public transport is so good and cycling provision is getting so much better that we never needed a car for an hour or so (which I think is basically the Zipcar selling point) and when we wanted a car for longer like a holiday with a disabled person we just hired an bog-standard hire car because it was cheaper.

So I am interested to see how they get on.

[jocher]

Update on Zip Cars in Oakhurst Grove.

The Zip Car in Oakhurst Grove was moved yesterday by a Zip Car representative. I happened to be in the street and spoke to the representative who told me he was going to drive around and recharge the battery and his instructions were to re park in Oakhurst Grove later. He also left another VW without the livery a few doors down which is still there.

I haven't seen the liveried car since and if they are being moved around then it seems more reasonable rather than taking up a parking space for weeks on end. He said he didn't know when the Flex scheme would be starting.

[Abe_froeman]

There has been one outside the Dulwich Leisure Centre for over a week now which seems particularly obnoxious given the parking pressure there.

[daveybigpotatoes]

I genuinely can?t see an issue in Zipcars being parked on residential streets for residents to use. I am not talking advertising cars as this isn?t on ? I mean ?for rent? cars that could make ownership redundant.

[Beulah]

Zipcar now appears to have the system up and running.

But I suspect the Flex cars may stay where they are for some time as it costs 29p per minute or ?17.40 an hour to use them.

Zipcar says it compares favourably with a London taxi fare but surely only if it's not comparing it to a fixed fare.

Can you imagine being stuck in a jam, totting up 29p as each minute passes?

I do think car sharing is the way forward for inner London but it has to make economic sense.

[alex_b]

Can you only use the flex cars for one way journeys or can you use them for return journeys at the normal hourly rate? Seems curious to have two fleets dedicated to the two different journey options.

[beigemartin]

I'm pretty sure they're different fleets. I think in order to be able to honour return journey reservations they need to keep the fleets segregated.

[alex_b]

That seems like such a waste; hopefully they'll work out a way of combining fleets in future.

[Jeremy]

Beulah Wrote:

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> But I suspect the Flex cars may stay where they

> are for some time as it costs 29p per minute or

> ?17.40 an hour to use them.

> Zipcar says it compares favourably with a London

> taxi fare but surely only if it's not comparing it

> to a fixed fare.

> Can you imagine being stuck in a jam, totting up

> 29p as each minute passes?

Taxis (both minicabs and black taxis) charge for time as well as distance, so if you're stuck in a jam it still costs you. The comparison makes sense to me.

The real question is whether there will be a plentiful supply in prime areas.

I'd also be slightly worried about the drink driving aspect, people using them to get home late after a night out.

[Abe_froeman]

29p to move one from outside your house to outside someone elses's house seems ok to me!

[Brissie]

Abe_froeman Wrote:

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> 29p to move one from outside your house to outside

> someone elses's house seems ok to me!

Ditto! 2 have suddenly appeared in Zenoria St. Finding a park in our street is tricky at the best of times and with two babies to load into a car it is not feasible to park in another street, nor is using a zip car. (At 10-15 minutes to load/unload the car with seats & children.... almost ?6 and we haven't even gone anywhere! Of course I am aware that young families are not their target market).

Hopefully these cars will be moved soon!