Are labour broken - discuss

[Pugwash]

After reading comments on the 'broken LD' can we weigh up the arguement and ask the same question of Labour.

What is going on with labour in Southwark with yet another councillor appearing to desert the party. Do we know why John Friary resigned?. With 2 other councillors suspended - is the going too tough for Labour?

Recent budget announcements - how many Labour councillors thought in private that their party was misguided aa to where the cuts had to be made.

It is inevitable that cuts have to be made but cutting Holmhurst Day Centre and now announcing that they are withdrawing funding for all non council run day centres in the borough - affecting the elderly, frequently isolated and vulnerable, suffering from dementia, is not the 'caring Labour party' it makes it out to be.

From what I have heard about John Friary - he appeared to be a well liked experienced councillor - did he jump or was he pushed?

[James Barber]

This what the Evenning Standard is saying. I hope the Police are wrong.

Added to this Southwark Labour Cllr Keadean Rhoden recently convicted of housing benefit fraud.

Added to this Southwark Labour Cllr Stephen Govier being suspended from the national Labour party under mysterious circumstances.

Added to this Southwark Labour Cllr Abdul Mohamed being unable to complete his legally required Declarations of Interests correctly since at least 2007 so no one could tell if he had any conflicts of interest. This was only fixed after I felt I had to make a formal complaint.

All rather sad state of affairs.

[the-e-dealer]

A least Labour get their Liars, crooks and suspected crooks out. The Lib Dems put them in the Cabinet!

[vinceayre]

As a Tory, albeit one who voted for Labour twice when you had a Tory bloke in charge, I think Labour is not only broken but totally irrelevant for todays society in this country. The section of society they used to represent is no longer there, anyone who votes for them simply on principal is voting in the full knowledge that there will not be enough "principled" votes to get them elected. The Labour party was born from the death of the Liberals, I think we are seeing the reversing of that process.

Also Milliband, Balls and Cooper are so unelectable it is verging on comic, I have never seen such a group of politicians with such a lack of charisma attain such high office, apart from Foot perhaps, he was even worse and looked what happened there.

[Ridgley]

I wouldn?t say Labour is broken, I am just not sure what there policy are and what direction Ed Miliband is taking the party I not sure if he is the right leader for the party I feel that Ed Balls is a good adversary for George Osborne.

[bawdy-nan]

shouldn't that be "is"

[DJKillaQueen]

Labour are clearly in transition....we just don't know in transition into what yet. They need to decide well before the next election though. Politics is about cycles, just like economics. Any party in power for 13 years will come to the end of it's shelf life, like the Thatcher government before and it's the people that will decide when that shelf life expires. The economy will play a large role too. And for New Labour, Iraq was a key milestone too.

I don't think anyone can argue with the suspension or sacking of any MP or councillor who breaks the law/ rules (whatever the party)....and all parties have their crooks.

On the Southwark Council front. Southwark has been asked to accomodate some of the largest cuts bestowed on any local authority in the country. There are difficult choices to be made. The aim though is to make no cuts cuts to front line services....but to find savings in improved efficiency elswhere. It remains to be seen if that can be achieved.

[Marmora Man]

Most cuts to services, whether they be front line or back office, will be blamed on Government. This is to an extent true but misses the point that Gov't has given (passed) the decision making authority to local authorities.

The cynic in me can see a perverted logic in a Labour run authority protecting its payroll staff at the expense of actual services. Tamanay Hall anyone?

[DJKillaQueen]

Various council spokes people have given assurances this will not be the case and have opened up to scrutiny any decisions they make. In fact...there is consultation ongoing with local groups, Tenants Council, TRAs and various other public bodies to discuss what should be cut and what should be prioritised. There is plenty of opportunity for all residents of Southwark to have their say and influence decisions. It's a level of transparency and consultation that we didn't see under the previous council. But whatever the colour of the council, at the end of the day cuts mean cuts and difficult decisions will have to be made. It will be impossible to appease everyone.

And yes government will be blamed...they have imposed the cuts.

[James Barber]

Hi DJ,

Southwark Labour have choices.

They've decided to cut by a lot more than the central govt cuts required. This is to find the money for their rash election promises such as the ?2M next year for universal Free School Meals increasing to at least ?4.2M by 2013 when all Primary school kids will be offered them. The Village schools currently have 12 kids entitled to free school meals the hundreds of other kids not entitled will then receive free school meals. That's a lot of wealthy families being subsidised by the less well of who consequently will see other services they do need cut.

Another promise was to half the prices of meals on wheels for our older residents. But they're currently priced at the average rate for London. So southwark will by far result in the cheapest meals on wheels in probably England.

To find the money for this other services have to be cut by more than the central govt cuts - one will be the Holmhurst Day Centre for older residents with serious issues.

Southwark Labour have very real choices and they appear to be making some really odd ones and choosing to make much more severe cuts than necessary.

[DJKillaQueen]

Those are valid points....but if you promise something in an election you have to deliver it or face accusations of poor credibility so they shot themselves in the foot with the school meals issue. I agree it was a nonsensical aim given that many of the poorest school children, as you rightly say, were already entitled to free school meals. Having said that 2m and even 4.2m isn't a sginificant percentage of Southwarks annual budget around 0.5 to 1 per cent respectively.

Compare that to the millions wasted on contractors being paid more than once for the same job and the loose and ridiculous contracts set up under the previous council (and locked in for three years) that see a much larger amount of money being wasted. Compare that also to the 100m spent on the call centre. In light of those blunders I can forgive the Labour council for spending 1% of it's budget on free school meals.

[James Barber]

Hi DJ,

FSM is just one of many rash promises made. They add up to around 5-10% extra required on the council budget OR double the cuts required this year to fund.

I don't know who is feeding you this rubbish about council contracts.

?100M spent on a call centre. Is that over 10 years or one year. Would that be the call centre contract that allowed the replaced of lots of council staff posts to be removed and proven to be much more than self funding. Would the new administration be proposing more call centres to deal with all council housing issues and closing the area housing offices blocking face to face contact.

What loose contracts are you talking about?

NB the new administration has talked during and since the election about sharing services and contracts with other councils. EU regulations make this VERY complicated snd very easilly challengeable in law by any suppliers who also bid and failed. Again just not thought through.

[the-e-dealer]

Its sad we now assume Guity until proved innocent. I gather they've not charged him.

[DJKillaQueen]

It's not rubbish about council contracts James. I am talking sepcifically about repairs and maintenance contracts. Some contractors have got away with charging two or three times for the same job.

Also in the interestes of fairness it might perhaps be useful if a Labour councillor could be allowed to post.

[SeanMacGabhann]

what, they aren't allowed?? Maybe the moderators have gone too far this time

[James Barber]

Hi DJ,

I didn't think their was any restriction on Labour cllrs posting.

The cross party scrutiny report into housing repairs stats makes very interesting reading. Apart from the step reduction in residents complaints and councillor housing case work between 2007 & 2008 when the system introduced then stubbornly stuck at current levels. One of the interviewees of the committee from a repair companies appeared to be saying they found it really hard to manage their staff because of thier representation - presumably by union reps as hard to imagine what else this means. So hopefully now Labour led administration can quickly knock some union heads together to get this aspect fixed.

[louisiana]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> Also in the interestes of fairness it might

> perhaps be useful if a Labour councillor could be

> allowed to post.

Sorry DJKQ, but you have just made my evening!!

I'm kind of thinking that you must be in a parallel universe... The universe where Labour Councillors Are Not Allowed To Post :)

[Pugwash]

This is a Forum where everyone is entitled to their views- regardless of political inclinations.

Agree with James and others that the Free meals is a joke. I think Labour would have scored more highly if they stated that they would provide free cereal, toast and fruit breakfasts for all primary children. I think the kids are more likely eat this than the lunches and it would be cheaper.(My grandson has breakfast at his pre school club for 50p)

MOW - not many people like these, and there is a lot of wastage. However it is the only means by which many can get a hot cooked meal.

However if Southwark Council Officers chase up all the debts outstanding to Southwark by it's residents, there will be money to reduce the number of cuts. If you think of all those unpaid rents, community care charges, client contributions

for care homes, council tax etc - they must add up to a few million. There will be people who are genuinely unable to pay their debts - many elderly who are entitled to Housing Benefit and other benefits but have not claimed, but equally there are others who delight in cheating the system.

Do the high paid very senior council officers really earn their money? Does Susanna White and Annie Sheppard deserve their salaries?

Cutting or redesigning Youth Services at a time when more young people are out of work and some being drawn into crime.

The previous Labour administration closed our local youth club and it took the power of local residents, with the help of the Police and local Lib Dem councillors to get it reopened - it is once again under threat.

Cutting grants to Age Concern who provide a large number of day centres and other services to the elderly of Southwark - - this 'voluntary agency/charity' represents the very concerns that David Cameron talks about in his Big Society debates - the local council passing down to local/voluntary/charities to run services on their behalf.

[bridgewithout]

i really doubt that money 'reclaimed' from those already struggling financially would make a hell of a difference. a shepherdless council might :)

looking at the rest of it, outside of any political party, it looks like labour is imploding which can't really be that much of a surprise considering just how they seem to have been taking southwark for granted for a very long time?

[James Barber]

In 9 months Southwark Labour appear to have lost three councillors...so far:

1 resigned last week after Police allegations of grooming for under age sex.

1 convicted of benefit fraud but as not 3 months sentence but 200 hours community work doesn't automatically stop being a councillor.

1 asked by labour Southwark leader to resign for not telling them about a criminal conviction and 5 year sentence for shooting someone in California which appears to have ended within 5 years of being elected - if this offence had been in UK he would have automatically not been allowed to stand.

What else is going to be discovered about the remaining 32 Labour councillors?

Will the two remaining dodgy councillors actually resign or try toughing it out.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Distasteful James - share prices in helpful libdem councillors fell sharply tonight

[the-e-dealer]

James is this New Lib Dem Policy ? guilty until proved innocent ? Sounds Like Saddam!

[DJKillaQueen]

Yes I agree. James...your gleeful use of those three cases to try and taint the rest of the labour council...many of whose councillors work very hard (my own ward councillors being three of them) is well......

How about this one James.....

or this one James?

Just to even things up!

Seems like the criminal sort wear a yellow tie too! :))

[the-e-dealer]

Given that the Former Libdems are such a small Party how does their crook to member ratio compare?

[DJKillaQueen]

Very good question lol.....