Man stabbed to death near East Dulwich station

[Chase Dulwit]

It's still East Dulwich, only recently gentrified. There are no borders to cross, people from all over town can move around freely, especially to pubs and parties. A friend of mine was stabbed at the Kings Arms when it was still a pub in the eighties. Just read the forums, still plenty of muggings, violent burglaries etc go on here.

Last year someone was shot dead in the back of the head 100 yards from my front door. Most of the deaths are not random, just a result of something somebody has got involved in. It's not Disneyland people; though the estate agents would have you think so.

[Ann]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> It may well have just been a teenage argument that

> got out of hand, but sadly it seems these days,

> that's all it takes for some to commit murder.

As CJJ also suggests. Fighting has probably never not been part of our culture. I'm thinking of Mods and Rockers '50's early '60's as an example of divisions amongst groups in society.

A punch-up is hardly desirable on our streets but could be broken up quickly ( probably ) and almost certainly without loss of life.

A life had been lost and most probably another ( young ) life will have seen his/her life changed irrevocably at a very young age for the crime that was committed.

How very, very ironic and sad beyond belief that this should have ( possibly ) happened at an 18th birthday party. A party to celebrate 'Coming of Age'. An entry to adulthood from childhood.

[Miles]

prickle Wrote:

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> Jimmyay, has it been confirmed that the victim is

> black?

If operation trident are involved, they are the unit that investigates gun related murders in the black communities.

[EDmummy]

Had to explain what happened here to my 10 yr old son after driving past police cordons. Absolute tragic waste of life. We don't know anything about the poor boy who lost his life or his devastated family. My thoughts go out to them. These are the people who can, through their unbelievably horrific experience, help others to avoid such senseless waste of life.

[James Barber]

Obviously tragic.

Tragic for the victim, family, friends, perpetrator/s who will be caught and spend a great many years in prison, perpertrators families and friends.

In the current climate potentially even tragic for the small businesses that have had to remain closed.

The ripples are huge from such tragedies.

One thing I will be asking about is having such huge unattended areas around Sainsbury's that appears un supervised. The changed reduced Sainsbury's opening on Saturday nights have resulted in much less supervision of their car park and the surrounding areas.

If anyone thinks they have any information about this crime please get in touch with the Police South Camberwell ward Safer Neighbourhood Team where this all took place 07920 233911 / [email protected] OR Crimestoppers 0800 555 111 / http://www.crimestoppers-uk.org

[Pearson]

James Barber Wrote:

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> Obviously tragic.

> Tragic for the victim, family, friends,

> perpetrator/s who will be caught and spend a great

> many years in prison, perpertrators families and

> friends.

> In the current climate potentially even tragic for

> the small businesses that have had to remain

> closed.

>

> The ripples are huge from such tragedies.

>

> One thing I will be asking about is having such

> huge unattended areas around Sainsbury's that

> appears un supervised. The changed reduced

> Sainsbury's opening on Saturday nights have

> resulted in much less supervision of their car

> park and the surrounding areas.

_____________________________________________________

I fail to see how the lack of 'supervision' in/on or

around Sainsburys car park has anything to do with the

death of an 18 year old.

Let me fix that for you:

"One thing I will be asking about is having such

> huge unattended areas around EAST DULWICH that

> appears un supervised BY THE POLICE. The changed reduced

>HOURS on Saturday nights and the rest of the year have

> resulted in much less supervision of EAST DULWICH and the surrounding areas."

Apologies if you feel this to be somewhat 'sarcastic'. But seriously,

how can you divert some of the blame for this on Sainsburys??

Bizarre.

[Weegee]

This is a very sad thing to happen. Its most probably a gang related incident and its just as probable of happening in East Dulwich...like its happened in Denmark Hill, Camberwell, Peckham and other surrounding areas.

[dulwichbloke]

I was thinking along the same lines! James Barber's observations seemed rather odd to me.

James, do you have some information about where this boy was attacked? It appeared to me that he died alongside a busy road (at quite a busy time) by the station, not in Sainsbury's car park.

[reneet]

jimmyay Wrote:

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> The usual cheap waste of life. We don't get it so

> much around here but in some parts of London this

> happens every week.

>

> Why do young black males do this to each other?

> Its beyond pathetic and so so tragic. What the

> hell are the parents doing. They turn a blind eye

> to the culture their kids are falling into.

>

>

> Suppose we can be right on & agree this crime is

> all the fault of the tory cuts though, rather than

> the parenting or any effort for individuals to

> look out for their kids or change the culture they

> live in. For God's sake.

I suppose young white males (or even females) never shoot or stab each other??

[Tarot]

There is not enough police in East Dulwich,it has been quite some time since there has been any constables walking the beat around this area.

I have seen a police helicopters that mainly circle for ages.but that is all.

To blame Sainsburys is ridiculous.

That area is well known locally for drug dealing,and has been for ages,but it is not policed enough.

Condolences to the family.

[Gimme]

Why don't you all stop being so silly.

Sainsbury's wouldn't have stopped a fight after a party.

Neither would more police on the beat.

These things happen in our metropolis and there's nothing that you or I or the average beat constable is going to be able to do if someone takes a knife to a party and decides to use it.

Some of the comments on this thread are pathetic. Stop using the death of someone to spark internet forum jibber jabber.

And James, you should know better. You don't have to try to solve everything that happens by looking into it.

[Pearson]

Gimme Wrote:

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> Why don't you all stop being so silly.

> Sainsbury's wouldn't have stopped a fight after a

> party.

> Neither would more police on the beat.

> These things happen in our metropolis and there's

> nothing that you or I or the average beat

> constable is going to be able to do if someone

> takes a knife to a party and decides to use it.

> Some of the comments on this thread are pathetic.

> Stop using the death of someone to spark internet

> forum jibber jabber.

>

> And James, you should know better. You don't have

> to try to solve everything that happens by looking

> into it.

> -----------------------------------------------

Ok, i don't mind told to 'stop being silly'

But what is your post if not what it asks against?:

"Some of the comments on this thread are pathetic.

> Stop using the death of someone to spark internet

> forum jibber jabber."

Pathetic Jibber jabber...hahahaha

Your point was?

[dulwichbloke]

Indeed, a drug/alcohol/testosterone/gang/rage fuelled (or whatever it may be) attack on someone is hardly going to be prevented by the attacker thinking there may be a (slight) possibility of bumping into a car park attendant or a beat policeman, at the precise moment the argument/attack takes place. Surely the carrying of deadly weapons which cause what would otherwise be fights into life threatening events, may be more of an issue?

[DJKillaQueen]

Also there IS the chance that a police team carrying out stop and search may well have confiscated knives etc so to claim a police presence would never make a difference is nonsense.

James is simply taking an interest in something that is very tragic and asking if there is anything he can do as a councillor to minimise the chances of that happening again.

[Pearson]

His comments with regards to Sainsubruys were simply ridiculous.

Smacked of a politician try to say something

meaningful without anything meaningful to say.

[Zaardvark]

Hi,

To me it seems that this is a terrible, tragic event and all causes or partial solutions to avoid this happening again ought to be investigated. As you might guess, imho, James Barber was not out of order in his comments re Sainsburys. It is very hard to imagine events of such seriousness happening if that party was held in a much busier, better policed area, e.g. Lordship Lane or even in Camberwell Church Street. Sainsburys have frankly been destructively lax in their security and care of the area they manage, particularly the park but also the car park. Having such a large, badly managed area nearby helps no one and does seem to act as a focal point for gang related activity in the surrounding area, given the number of incidents around the shop and in the shop itself such as http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?20,392355,page=1. I suppose also, in this context, that having late night parties at the Hamlets also does not seem to be wise.

Z

[louisiana]

I would like to recommend a film that was shown on BBC 4 this week.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00xz0px/Scenes_from_a_Teenage_Killing/

2 hours.

Moving, thoughtful, worth your time.

Includes interviews with the family of Ricardo Cunha (murdered in West Norwood).

On iPlayer until this coming Tuesday night.

*****

Bafta-winning director Morgan Matthews's landmark film exploring the impact of teenage killings on families and communities across Britain, an emotional journey that chronicles every teenager who died as a result of violence in 2009 in the UK. Harrowing actuality filmed in the immediate aftermath combines with moving testimony from the spectrum of people affected in the wake of violent death. Filmed over eighteen months, this epic documentary is the BBC's most ambitious film to date about youth violence.

The film questions society's attitudes towards young people whilst probing the meaning behind terminology such as 'gang violence' or 'gang-related' often used in connection with teenage killings. It reveals the reality of the teenage murder toll across one year, connecting the viewer with the people behind the headlines and the emotional consequences of violent death. Differing perspectives from families, friends, passers-by and the police are explored with intimacy and depth. Together they reflect the collective impact of a teenage killing on an entire community.

Travelling the length and breadth of Britain, the film meets people of different religion, race and class. It tells the story of Shevon Wilson, whose misreported murder divided a community; the teenage girl who discovered she was pregnant to her boyfriend shortly after he was stabbed to death; the nurse who fought to save a dying teenager who was stabbed outside her home; and the outspoken East End twins who lost a mother and daughter in the same attack. The documentary names every teenager to die as a result of violence in 2009. Haunting footage of shrines is a reminder of the countless families who continue to suffer as a result of violence. Powerful and compelling, Scenes from a Teenage Killing is a poignant and brutal reminder of the needless waste of young potential.

***

[ryedalema]

Narnia Wrote:

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> paul32A Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Narnia - Just commenting on the ridiculous

> > statement of ryedalema who somehow thinks that

> the

> > fact he was in the area 5 or so hours before

> > anything happened meant his kids were somehow

> > lucky to have avoided their untimely deaths.

> > Seemed just a tad self-important to try and

> feel

> > part of the whole sorry tale.

>

> I take your point apart from the fact that s/he

> asked what time it happened at. Where do you get

> your 5 hours before from?

Ok - if it seemed I was trying to be part of this or seeming self important I completely apologise. I definitely do not want to detract from the tragedy for the victims, their families or anyone actually involved. I was, in fact:

- genuinely asking the time of the incident (haven't been out to see Police boards and can't find it on the news)

- actually thinking that we might have seen something that could help.

Of course I don't want my children involved (or me for that matter) - don't think that's particularly wrong.

I hope I've closed this off and we can get back to the purpose of this thread now.

[Gimme]

My point was that someone has been killed. When you log on to the forum to see if there is any more news about what happened, you dont expect to find petty silly disputes being started about who said what, whether something was funny, silly comments about whether Sainsbury's is to blame or not and all sorts of rubbish. Why not keep silly discussions and mini disputes to the Drawing Room or the pub.

Gimme Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Why don't you all stop being so silly.

> Sainsbury's wouldn't have stopped a fight after a

> party.

> Neither would more police on the beat.

> These things happen in our metropolis and there's

> nothing that you or I or the average beat

> constable is going to be able to do if someone

> takes a knife to a party and decides to use it.

>

> Some of the comments on this thread are pathetic.

> Stop using the death of someone to spark internet

> forum jibber jabber.

>

> And James, you should know better. You don't have

> to try to solve everything that happens by looking

> into it.

[EDdownunder]

Gimme, you accused "everyone" of being silly, to be honest its unlikely the forum is going to have news about the incident that is reliable and wholly factual so it might be considered silly to expect that. Surely the purpose of the forum is to "jibber jabber" and when you make comments that people might take personally surely one expects contrary responses, I thought that's what a forum was for?

Also, im glad James has received some support as his comments held more value than some of you seem to think. I did not read that he blamed sainsbury's at all, simply that a very large unsupervised area close to where parties are often held needs some investigation.

I don't think many of us have much experience in these matters so James well done for taking an interest, as well a polly should, in his constituency.

[McCatllar]

I'm slightly baffled by the lack of news on this incident. The BBC still carries the story on its England front page but it hasn't been updated since yesterday lunchtime. When similar incidents occur...especially where firearms, knives, gangs and a fatality are involved the news hacks are usually on to the story and the details in no time.

A reasonably reliable source tells me that, after shots being fired in Sainsbury's car park, a group of up to 15 boys chased an individual down Dog Kennel Hill and caught up with him outside the library where he was fatally stabbed.

[Miles]

The police seem to be keeping the gun part quiet which I dont understand. We asked one of the police by sainsburys about the incident and when I specifically mentioned the shooting was told that as I already knew, yes there was a shooting, whereas all the press appear to know is about the stabbing.

[Eddie M]

This press report refers to both

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/01/30/one-teenager-stabbed-to-death-and-another-shot-after-london-birthday-party-fight-115875-22884890/

[Penguin68]

It seems a sad commentary on modern times (assuming that the press report is accurate) that teenagers should go to a private birthday party apparently carrying at least one gun and one knife, and be prepared to use them.

[womanofdulwich]

Try watching NEDS- for context on teenage gangs( I did have to close my eyes for some of it).