Is there a market for it? (good housekeeping guide for hopeless people)

[ClareC]

I think life is just different now, the expectations are higher to a certain extent and there is more emphasis on entertaining / stimulating / educating children than there ever used to be.

my mum is a great mum who kept the house in order, cooked meals and looked after my sister and I very well. However, we didn't have activities we did each day (different classes / groups etc) like I do with my daughter so my mum would have spent a lot more time in the home. I vaguely remember playgroup a couple of mornings a week and then when older I usually did "something" class wise a week. We were also encouraged that we didn't play in the house (so as not to make a mess!).

We played outside a lot with other neighbourhood children and had a great deal of freedom as was seemingly the norm then. I was left in charge of my sister far earlier than would be deemed acceptable today. There was also less expectations in respect of educational play etc - my mum read to us and chatted to us loads teaching us things but it wasn't anywhere as structured as things seem to be now. I think running the house was the prioroty and chldcare was supplementary to that, today childcare is the priority which, given today's life / expectations leaves little time for the house!! We can't all be useless at doing all the things we remembered our mums doing ;-)

[zeban]

I don't agree with that at all ClareC, although my Mum's 58, I'm only 28 and my Mum's youngest is 13 so she's still very much a Mummy! It was ALL about educational play with her, it still is, especially as we had very little money so she took full advantage of all of the free activities/ low cost which were all educationally aimed- eg. museums etc. My brother from a very young age has been into loads of sports activities which she's taken him too, the rest of us did dance, gymnastics etc. We never 'played out' with other neighbourhood children.

She didn't prioritise looking after the house above doing stuff with us, she just managed to find a healthy balance by staying on top of the housework. We didn't have loads of visitors coming around, and didn't worry about others expectations of her, the house wasn't a spotless house, it was relatively tidy and clean simply so she wouldn't drown in housework!

When you're on your own I think you just have to be more organised because there's noone else to pick up the slack.

I can see HER parents were the way you describe though.

[Fuschia]

My mum was like ClareC's. We also had less STUFF... not huge nos of toys for eg

[ClareC]

I am older than you Zeban (unfortunately), also did you grow up in London?

I was brought up in Kent and we had loads of freedom as did all the other local kids, off on our bikes for the day, visiting friends, going to the woods, park, picnics, building camps, swimming etc (although that was in my Uncle's pool so not "unsupervised" as such, although I used to ride my bike round there as soon as the suun was out ;-)).

My mum would have had loads of time to do stuff round the house whilst we were off doing things that didn't include her.

The older kids looked out for the younger one's. It was drilled into us not to talk to or accept sweets from strangers and had to be home by a certain time. Neighbours knew each other and it was the way things were....

We did visit museums, zoo's etc but that was more of a family day trip - certainly going to London was a big thing!!

Don't get me wrong, education was extremely important to my mum and she certainly did spend time encouraging us in that respect, it was drilled into me that passing the 11plus was the goal and I remember my mum buying me work books which she would do with me. Classes such as ballet etc tended to be limited due to the expense although I did do school clubs and brownies and things like that.

[ClareC]

Completely agree Fuschia, MUCH less stuff!

Also we got presents (toys) for birthday's and Christmas, not all year round as seems to be the norm these days.

[Gussy]

My mum was like your's too ClareC and I grew up in Kent too - ooo those were the days.....riding choppers around the block with about 10 other kids til 7pm (not an adult in sight), loads of country walks, playing by the railway....not so many trips whippersnappers music or beany bounce :) I only remember going to a playgroup once or twice before I went to school.

[Fuschia]

I was broight up in Herts, always playing outside, in the woods, bike rides etc

[zeban]

Yep I grew up in London. It does make a massive difference doesn't it? I would have loved to do all of that outdoors stuff, I really loved nature growing up, I used to sit in my Mum's garden bird spotting with a pair of binoculars! She took us on holidays around the UK where there were more outdoorsy things to do but I don't think she got much time to herself which is a shame really. I don't know how she didn't go mad!!!

[ClareC]

It was fab! I would love for my daughter to have that same freedom, it really was priceless! Sadly I think those day's have past even in Kent / Herts!!

[Pickle]

When I was home over Christmas my Mum was talking about how different things were - she said when I was a baby she didn't go to any groups at all until I turned 3 and was old enough to go to Playcentre (which is a drop off, parent run preschool). Apparently she had a couple of friends with babies that she would meet up with for coffee mornings once a fortnight or so, but that was it. By the time she had my sister (who is 10 years younger than me, so still in her 20's) she said there were more playgroups in existence and it was becoming more the "norm" to be out and about with your baby rather than at home.

For me, my weekly routine of playgroups, music groups etc. when my children were small was a lifeline - well worth the sacrifice of ironed clothes and a clean sink ;-)

*tootles off to clean sink - kids are older now, no excuse*

[Fuschia]

Think, my mum had 3 under 4, didn't drive, no freezer, top loaded washing machine, terry nappies....

We did meet up regularly at her friends houses, and went on holiday with them and their children. I had lots of exctra aunties and cousins...

[Ruth_Baldock]

My Mum was bought up on a sort-of commune (the Zionist Fed. in the very young state of isreal) and for the first 8-10 years of my life, we lived on a Kibbutz where everyone mucked in with childcare, housecare etc. All the cooking was done in a big communal kitchen, and we ate together in "l'chadar ohel" which was a mahooosive dining room.

Sorted.

Mum said when she came back to the UK, lived in a house with a job offsite (she was a medic on the kibbutz and worked at Guys when we came back) and had me, a house, a husband, a cat and then a teeeeeny baby to look after, she felt she would go mental.

Moral of the story: live on a kibbutz. Forever.

[littleEDfamily]

Sorry, but can't help share another tidbit from my sad and dull (yet strangely enjoyable) new life.

This morning, when we (all dressed, beds made) came into the shiny-sinky-kitchen, daughter announced:

"This smells of grandma's kitchen."

Aaah... the sweet smell of Cif (or Jif as it was called when I was a kid).

PS RB.. I hear there are spiders as big as your head on kibbutzes (is that the plural?). For that reason alone, 'I'm out'.

[dully]

I was bought up in london. My mum was really ill and my dad was gone so I, being the eldest, was left in charge of the household. I was 10 with 4 siblings to look after and a mum to support. I used to clean the whole house, cook all meals from scratch,do the weekly shop, go to the post office to pay bills, spend quality time with my siblings, either go to hospital to visit my mum or care for her in an evening. I had to present my family as perfectly looked after or social services would've nabbed up and split us up. I also did my homework and proceeded to university.

its really not that hard, its just tedious

[Ruth_Baldock]

LEDF: Kibbutzim is the plural ;)

Never saw massive spiders, I did see lots of lizards and apparantly one day found a dead snake and kicked it into the house from our garden. My Mum had a FIT and was so out of sorts that our neighbour had to come and calm her down.

[littleEDfamily]

dully - so true it is tedious, but you're right do-able, as I have found out this week. I guess it's like most things, you just have to make your mind up about it (or be 'forced' to as you were). Oh and make friends with FlyLady.

Perspective: gained.

Thanks RB, I love to learn a new plural!

[Moi23]

Hello all, it's been incredibly comforting to read this thread. So nice to know I'm not the only hopeless homekeeper. Dully, it's true, whenever I've been under serious pressure to do things I always do them. Perhaps its just plain old boredom that lands my home in chaos. Anyhow, I'm taking some advice from the thread and I'm going to start this FlyLady thing. Just need to find some bloody bleach and some gloves... Oh, and I need to get on with it and stop reading threads on the forum... Wish me luck!

[littleEDfamily]

Luck, Moi23!

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Dully, I think you are excused housework for the rest of your life.

[Fuschia]

Dully, hugs. I hade the same situation with my mum from when I was about 13... oldest of 3, mum in hospital and dad awol. Though a friend of my mums would come and hoover

[Sanne Panne]

For those with Kent/Herts type childhoods (I'm "one of you", grew up in Holland, same thing - always out, no playgroups, few toys in the house): how do you feel about your kids growing up here? My husband (who's almost 40) grew up in central London and was also always out on his bike and playing day-long hiding games around Oxford Street with his friends at age 8) but maybe his folks were a lot more laissez faire... I know right now he wouldn't let our kids roam the streets (they're too young now but I know he won't change his minds in a few years time either).

Don't want to hijack the thread at all, just looking for some thoughts...

[pebbles]

Dully/Fushia - i take my hat off to you both, u r both amazing

I'm Dulwich born and bread and 32 with 2 older brothers. Having spoken with my mum she said that she didn't take us to any groups as they weren't around however there was a group of 4 mums who every week one mum would take the 4 kids so 3 of the mums had 2 hours off so basically 3 out of 4 weeks they had time off which she said was her life saver as being at home non stop really did drive her to distraction!!! (i told her i didn't think i could ever have driven her to distraction and she just laughed!!!). Like some other people she said we just played around her while she got on with jobs. Our house was always very clean but totally lived in - if that makes - and still now that's what i think when i go to my mums (still local) - clean but lived in.

With regards to playing out - we played out in Dulwich woods, cycling up and down the local roads, popping in and out of friends houses without parents actually knowing where we are. Unfortunately I know I won't allow our children the same privilege. My bro and family live in a village near Stratford upon Avon and they all play out on the "local green" and I totally see why he made the decision to leave Dulwich (although I can see myself here forever).

FlyLady update - well today - my sink is sparkling again and after 10 days of piling up I actually managed to put away ALL THE CLEAN CLOTHES - truly amazing. I can now see floor space in the children's rooms and our spare room bed!!! Kids clothes are also out ready to get them dressed tomorrow morning. My husband thinks something is seriously wrong with me cos he doesn't understand how a thread on a forum and some website called FlyLady could want me to baby oil the sink to make it sparkle!!!!!!!

[Fuschia]

This keeps me sane:

http://www.organised-mum.co.uk/Home-Planner-Calendar-p-16.html

[littleEDfamily]

I may as well just kiss any shred of residual coolness I have goodbye.. I am twitching with excitement about these organised-mum planners. Credit card at the ready!!

Good girl pebbles... although slighly baffled by you shining with baby oil.

My upbringing was very sheltered. Spent early childhood in not the safest of cities, and by the time we moved somewhere safer, we were all so paranoid, there's no way I would ever have been out of parents' sight. We're now out of ED in the countryside (tres boring, but really quite lovely in many ways), and my daughter won't go out in the garden let alone on other outdoor adventures. Maybe this summer things will be different....they will be I invite a playmate round and lock them both in the garden :-) The irony is I bring family back to Dulwich for some fresh air and scooting in the park.

[Fuschia]

littleEDfamily Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I may as well just kiss any shred of residual

> coolness I have goodbye.. I am twitching with

> excitement about these organised-mum planners.

> Credit card at the ready!!

Lol I have the big monthly planner and also the weekly menu planner with tearoff shopping lists