Is there a market for it? (good housekeeping guide for hopeless people)

[littleEDfamily]

My grandmother was a true homemaker (despite having the brains to have done pretty much anything she wanted). That house was ship shape - she made all the kids clothes, did delicious baking and home was clean as a whistle. My mum, despite being a working mother, did a great job of running the house too.

My sister and I, on the other hand.... er... rather less capable. I detest a dirty house, but seem to be losing my battle on the chaos. Some of that chaos could well be alleviated by a cleaner, but I wonder if what I really need is someone to just sort me out, introduce systems - tell me how a true homemaker runs a house. Sort of a management consultant for houses.

Is this a ludicrous idea? Is the reason I can't sort myself out simply that I spend too much time on the Forum, or do I just need to upskill?

[Pickle]

I know exactly what you mean. I've spent the morning attempting to create some kind of order out of the mess of toys that have taken over the kitchen - a completely futile exercise.

My Mum worked, sewed our clothes, baked, and her house was always spotless without the help of anyone.

I have a cleaner, but the house never looks spotless. There is stuff everywhere which periodically gets moved from one place to under a bed in another room or up into our loft bedroom which resembles a bomb site (and in laws are due to arrive next Friday expecting to sleep there, meaning yet another "move the junk around" exercise is on the cards this week).

I did try to bake one of Mum's biscuit recipes yesterday but they didn't turn out at all like hers and as I'd be too embarrassed to serve them to anyone had to eat the whole lot myself.

I would love someone to come into my house and help me sort it out! Although to be honest I think if I got rid of the kids most of the problems would be solved...

;-)

[ClareC]

That sounds so familiar!!! Junk moves around our house too, invariably ending in the loft bedroom up intil the inlaws come to stay at which point there is a mass junk move around!

My theory is if only I could have a big clear out so everything had a home I would be able to keep the house tidy....

I have a cleaner too, she is fab but I do have to move the junk to make cleaning possibleeach week!

[dully]

I thought one of the pleasure of being a SAHM is that you get to try all these things out? I've perfected my cake making after realising it cost the same to make a whole lemon and poppy seed cake at home as it does to have the one slice in a nice cafe these days. Since being at home I've learnt to crochet, knit, make shag pile rugs, clean the house compulsively, make sushi, expand my recipe knowledge all things which are completely pointless and unappreciated in this day and age. My cake only tastes as good as one from m and s, it was easy to just buy the baby puree and spend more time with the baby and the house just gets messy again.

No one thinks all these things I do are worth the hours they take and I tend to get belittling comments about being a housewife. I did enjoy these things because I was bored in an evening and needed something more to do. The world it seems wants women to spend as little time with the kids, in and on the home because it supports the economy more in every way if everyone just goes to work.

[womanofdulwich]

I recommend a great book called The Family Manager takes charge by Kathy Peel.published BY ebury Press. You will know a lot of the stuff in it, but lots you wont and all useful.Also makes you realise what you do do.

[charlottep]

I think it often comes down to a change of approach in recent years. For our mothers' generation, being the all round housewife was pretty much the norm. However, with my mum at least, she didn't spend half the time I spend with my children taking them to play groups, classes, the park, swimming, etc. When I'm at home with my children, I feel that I have slacked off if we haven't done at least one proper activity a day. My mum always remarks on how much we take on. I guess if I stopped doing this, much of that the washing, cooking and cleaning would be done more regularly. The house could be immaculate, but my children would be less stimulated. It's not so much a case of us not being able to do it, nowadays I think we just think other things are more important. We're all still working bloody hard!

[Helen GV]

I'm sure my house would be tidier if I didn't have the forum to occupy me but I would also be insane...

[littleEDfamily]

My kids (and ok, I am prone to messiness as well) seem to mess faster than I can tidy. I love cooking and don't mind cleaning, but I just cannot find enough hours in the day to do all those lovely baking and crafty type things I would love to do - I'm too busy trying to achieve basic levels of hygiene and order, as well as putting decent food on the table. Oh and don't get me started on the washing......we all are constantly covered in vomit, food and occasionally leaky poo....

I can hear my mum's words in my head 'you need to be organised', but I am not sure exactly how to achieve it! Just doing the recycling and sorting out the mail takes ages. I do work from home, but I don't think that's really an excuse, and I am actually very on top of work things. It's like I have fundamental defect when it comes to being a housekeeper. I agree with you charlottep that we do take on more than previous generations, but I am definitely not a non-stop activity mum - I should have the time to do better!

That book sounds worth trying, thank you womanofdulwich....

Do you guys have proper 'rotas' for what needs to be done when (like cleaning oven, cleaning out fridge, descaling kettle, cleaning toys, washing windows, clearing out kitchen cupboards etc etc etc..) or do you just play it by ear?

[Gussy]

I agree with charlotte and littleED, I think we just do it differently now. I would love all that order and baking etc but I just don't have time and I consider myself fairly organised. I have a weekly schedule of activities for the kids, I plan their meals for the week and cook everything from scratch, I don't have a cleaner and only manage a morning a week to do the loo, hoover and change the sheets (before one of the kids starts screaming - although baby normally starts as soon as the hoover goes on!). I love the time we have together and wouldn't change it for the world.

HOWEVER, the place is a tip and I HATE it and the clothes washing is a joke, I just can't keep up (nothing gets ironed) but I don't know if there's a lot more organising etc I can do. Even that takes time and is boring :) I think my mum and her mum's generation were maybe a bit tougher and you had to sit down and amuse yourself while mum did the chores.....I remember my mum was always in the kitchen and before my brother came along I would just sit on the work top and watch her. Not a chance in hell any of my two would sitting anywhere for more than 5 seconds. I just want to make the most of my little ones at this special time and put housework fairly low down on the list of priorities. Doesn't mean I won't be taking a look at that book Womanofdulwich recommended!

But in answer to the original OP's question is there a market, then if you've got the money there probably is! If I had a ton of money I'd get some pointers for sure, but then again, maybe I wouldn't need it because I'd also have a cleaner, nanny, ironing lady etc etc. I'd be interested to hear how such a person would suggest fitting everything in and/or changing the balance of daily activities to be able to add sewing/knitting, more cleaning etc into the mix. I suppose in the couple of hours I get in the evening before bed I could start sewing/knitting? To be honest I'd rather be on here or watching some crap on the tele after a full on day. Maybe I'm lazy? :)

[Moos]

Could the answer be partly that you have very small children (at least, Pickle I know you do)? You will be remembering your mothers' expertise from a time when you were older and spending time at school, and she would have had a decade or so to perfect her skills. Maybe when your mothers had babies they were untidy too! Just a thought.

[Belle]

I think I saw something in the Guardian saying the average working parent has 90 mins time to themself each day once they've finished work and family-related chores. Although I'm mainly a SAHM, I thought about it and would say that applies to me and my husband. As you say Gussy, I think I'd rather veg out a bit during that time, or aspire to read a book, rather than use it for more chores/organising.

Edited to add, I am only now finding it possible to do the laundry when my son is awake, have found a way to get him to think helping out is fun, but up till now used to have to save all the chores to do during his nap, which was a bit of a race against time. Some kids are just not that easy to leave to their own devices whilst you tidy etc.

[littleEDfamily]

One thing I never expected when I gave up a 'proper' job was how much extra work is created when you are at home for the majority of the day. When you are at work and sprog is at childcare, the house at least stays as it was in the morning, but we trash it on a daily basis... the nearly 4 year old just moves tut all over the house.....and I just don't have the energy to really enforce better tidyness (of course, I shriek and say things like 'no wonder mummy doesn't have time to play with you, I am too busy tidying up your mess!!', but that's hardly constructive).

Second what others have said about our kids being worse at amusing themselves than I am sure we were.. I am seriously considering a playpen for when little one starts crawling.....

[Belle]

My mum is constantly (even now son is nearly 2) asking why I don't use a playpen. We actually did buy one when he started crawling around 8 months, but he would always scream the minute I put him in there - no matter which toys and distractions I put in with him. So we just use it as a room divider now. But I have seen pics of me as a toddler happily playing in one. I know my mum's generation think our kids are too used to being constantly entertained, that's something I hear a lot. Actually wish that were the case with my son in a way, but I can't claim to be brilliant at continous play!

[womanofdulwich]

I think it is worth bearing in mind that if you actually work as well as look after children , especially if more than 2 days a week, then it is worth getting a cleaner for 2-3 hours a week. Our mothers did not work and do everything else by themselves. Children create work in terms of cleaning and if you know that your floors and work tops are cleaned once a week - and work clothes are going to be ironed for you, then this really does make a huge difference. There is no shame in having a cleaner, especially when the going rate at ?9-?10 an hour, you are not exploiting anyone.

Also re play pens- you need to use them before your baby starts to crawl so they are used to it.

[pebbles]

I'm clean but not tidy!!!

Probably every 2 or so months i go out of my mind with how disorganised our house is and my husband and I will spend a weekend (like this weekend) going through everything and putting everything in the rightful place. Every time we do this I vow to myself that I won't let it get that bad again.... but it does... within days.

I have a few problems -

toys - getting dumped into boxes to make floor look tidy but then toys are mixed up!!,

clothes - i do our washing once a week and probably do about 5 washes in a day, not deliberately mind you, and i'm really pleased with myself and have the piles on everyones floors to put away but then i don't put away and everything gets mixed up and thrown around the rooms while looking for clothes and then i don't know whats clean or dirty!!!

paperwork - i'm very good at opening letter and putting into piles depending on relevance but they don't get filed, they get put into one pile, they then get mixed up and then 2 months later like tonight my husband and i will spend our evening on the floor going through this HUGE pile of paperwork and putting it into the right piles and then we file (this is seriously stressful and that's why i'm on EDF and not helping him!!!)

So.... I do sometimes get embarrassed about my clean but untidy house. When new friends come over i make sure it looks tidy but my regular friends know exactly what i'm like. Two of my closest friends are not just tidy but unbelievably tidy, nothing is ever out of place. I do sometimes dream of being like them but then i think that it's not me, i'm not minimalist, i like having stuff everywhere BUT i would like to be more organised and i would like to spend a little bit more time to put things in their rightful places rather than just dumping kids in bed, pouring myself glass of wine and putting feet up - literally 20 seconds to do it!!!

So... will i change?? Who know's but tomorrow I will put toys away in right places before the kids are in bed so it doesn't lesson my pouring glass of wine time!!!

littleEDfamily - if you find someone who does help people like us for a living please let me know as I would be interested (however I don't think I could tell my husband or my mum as they would quite rightly so think it was a huge waste of money!!!)

[suzisoo]

I have brought up 3 children albeit working part-time but have always had a well run household. The main thing is not to let things pile up or else the job will seem too much to tackle. Have lots of baskets around to store things like electric chargers etc. A lost property basket for anything not in its right place and go through it every couple of weeks. Sort out paperwork once a week. Fold up dry washing and often it will not need so much of an ironing. Do one room a week until you get on top of things. Have a 'ten minute tidy' where every one has to clear up as much as they can, its amazing what can be achieved in this time, especially if the children want to want to get it done before a certain tv programme. Also give yourself a target time, I often allow my self a couple of hours to see how much I can get done. I have done lots of decluttering for other people and at the moment get someones house ready when they have an estate agent viewing.If anyone would like me to come and give advice or declutter feel free to give me a ring on 07804 779759 Susan. Oh and in case your'e wondering, yes i do have the food tins in neat rows and everything in the airing cupboard is folded neatly!

[pebbles]

Suzisoo - i love the lost property basket and i know doing the paperwork weekly really will make a huge difference.

The one thing i really want to do is instead of folding up washing and putting on bedroom floors is put away immediately cos one wash of items will only take a minute to put away won't it?

I also like the 10 minute tidy thing cos that's all it takes really. This morning I told our 3 1/2 yr old son that we were going to tidy all day!!! anyway, i haven't quite finished his bedroom as i was moving toys from downstairs up etc etc and there's still quite a bit on his floor. So we put him down and a few minutes later he calls out for me so i go upstairs and he says "i'm going to have nightmares cos my bedroom is so messy can we tidy it pls" oh did i laugh :)

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

As a complete slut, I am happy to share: Flylady.com.

If you can see past the American hype, it's quite encouraging.

[Pickle]

pebbles Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> When new friends come

> over i make sure it looks tidy but my regular

> friends know exactly what i'm like.

:)) This makes me laugh, as I spent the morning having a massive toy tidy/clear out based on the fact that your place looked so organised yesterday. I've been duped!

[pebbles]

Totally duped Pickle, i spent the hour before you arrived doing a HUGE tidy up!!! Why d'you think you didn't go into the sitting room - cos that's where all the cr*p was!!! Even Claire mentioned how tidy the house was!!! Sorry :)

[sanity girl]

I am so with you LittleEDFamily, I feel like I am never on top of things and the house is constantly full of clutter. I am so tired by the end of the day I can never face dealing with it. I would love somebody to come in and help me sort it all, and then put all the unwanted stuff on ebay! And I wish I was more motivated to cook yummy things, but when do people looking after small ones at home all day find the time? Perhaps they have very placid children? Not me! I either have a nearly 4 year old tugging at my sleeve or a 4 month old crying for boob/cuddles/attention. I did use a playpen for my daughter when she was very little, and it was a great help - we were in Italy at the time, where everyone uses them. Not sure I could bring myself to use one again for no. 2 though.

And that flylady website - terrifying!!

[ClareC]

My house is clean but not tidy too!! Used to be very tidy and minimalistic but that was when I worked full time and had no children! Was easy, everything had a place and cleared up as I went along. There were always times when a cupboard or room got in a mess but could spend an evening sorting it when it annoyed me. Since my daughter was born nearly a year ago just keeping on top of the washing and emptying the dishwasher is a challenge. As for time to organise things properly so everything has a home and unwanted things are sent down the charity shop, no chance!!

My daughter doesn't tend to sleep during the day, once she is in bed I am tired and just want to veg! Maybe being nearly 6 months pregnant doesn't help or maybe I am just not cut out to be a cake baking, knitting, tidy housed SAHM!

[The Nappy Lady]

Peckhamgatecrasher.....I've come across flylady.com before too - whenever I have a mad 10 minute tidy up I say I'm having a flylady moment. One of her top tips I think is to always clean your bathroom sink as it makes you feel better - I have been known to do this last thing at night after brushing my teeth, and it does give one a lift I must say (gosh, how sad does that sound). LOL at myself, I suspect I was probably tipsy mostly when I've ended up doing it, and found it slightly amusing at the time.

Pebbles - we sound very similar, especially the mad weekend clean up every month or so - usually hubby and I realise just how bad things have got and set to, or I do it because people are coming to visit. It is so hard to keep on top of it all though, and with not just the two children, but also extra friends coming in after school, or before school when I am helping out others with the school run, plus the dog coming in with dirty paws twice a day.....gah!!!! I find January to March particularly tough, especially when as wet and muddy as it is at the moment.

But hold on to this thought ladies....when we are old and grey and look back on our lives will we remember how clean and tidy our homes were...no....will we remember wonderful times playing with our children...yes. My Mum, now 81 complains of how long her days are, with no one to care for, and her house hardly even gets messy with just her in it. Here is a poem she drilled into me when I was pregnant with No.1, I know it's a bit sickly sweet, but I think the message is an important one....

Mother, oh Mother,

come shake out your cloth,

empty the dustpan,

poison the moth,

Hang out the washing

and butter the bread,

sew on a button and make up a bed.

Where is the mother whose house

is so shocking?

She's up in the nursery,

blissfully rocking.

Oh, I've grown shiftless as Little

Boy Blue (lullaby, rockaby, lullaby loo).

Dishes are waiting and bills are past due

(pat-a-cake, darling, and peek, peekaboo).

The shopping's not done

and there's nothing for stew

and out in the yard there's a hullabaloo

but I'm playing Kanga and this is my Roo.

Look! Aren't her eyes the most wonderful hue?

(lullaby, rockaby, lullaby loo).

The cleaning and scrubbing

will wait till tomorrow,

for Children grow up,

as I've learned to my sorrow.

So quiet down, cobwebs.

Dust go to sleep.

I'm rocking my baby and babies don't keep......

[Belle]

I like the moral of that Molly, v nice.

[citizenED]

I'm sitting here with a beer, and a huge smile on my face having read this thread. I'm looking beyond my computer into the room where I can see little piles of toys , toys I had planned to take upstairs earlier this evening but that now look like they are ready for instant play when the boys get up in the morning. By the side of the sofa is the vacuum cleaner. I brought it in here earlier in the vain hope of running it round once I'd put the boys to bed. Another chore for the morning, I think, if the kids aren't already using it as a plaything. In the kitchen the there are dishes on the drainer, waiting to be put away. I'll use them for breakfast... and so it goes on.

Can't help giggling at the Pebbles/Pickle scenario; that must happen all the time.