local rail services - all stations near East Dulwich

[Eileen]

Do you use the rail services from any of the following stations: Denmark Hill, East Dulwich, Nunhead, Peckham Rye, Queen's Rd Peckham, South Bermondsey?

A number of comments have been aired in this forum about the state of East Dulwich station. Have you got anything to voice about the train services there? Do people who use East Dulwich station use the Loop Line between London Bridge and Victoria? I guess this probably would involve getting to Peckham Rye and changing to the Victoria services. Do people do that? Although I live between East Dulwich & Peckham Rye stations I always use Peckham Rye so not familiar with the world as an East Dulwich station user.

The reason I am asking is that Network Rail are 'consulting' (though hardly anyone knows) on long term rail services strategy, and the Loop Line between Victoria and London Bridge may be lost. There may also be changes to services affecting East Dulwich, and all the other local stations. I think we need to have an active rail users' group in this area to look after users' interests from a very informed position. If you are a keen rail user and want to see services maintained and improved at any of our local stations do please let me know.

There will be a meeting on Tuesday 2nd October 7pm to discuss all this, and work out what the issues are and how as rail users we can look after and lobby for rail users' interests. If you would like to come and know more please email for the details and background briefing papers I have collected.

If you are really keen you can find a copy of the draft South London RUS document at:http://www.networkrail.co.uk

* click Route Utilisation Strategies in left hand column

* click Route Utilisation Strategies in main text

* click the South London folder in the list of RUS strategies

* click South London RUS draft for consultation

I look forward to hearing from you if you are a keen rail user ... And it would be good to have a discussion here about what we think of local rail services, and ideas for improving them, and what already works well that should be maintained.

[northernmonkey]

Comments re East Dulwich: Insufficient trains between 7am and 9am. It makes no sense that there are more trains per hour after 9am than there are between 7am and 9am. Some of the services are getting very overcrowded and this will only worsen as more flats are built and the area becomes more popular with people who work in central London.

London Bridge - Victoria Loop: If this line is lost people commuting to Victoria would have to go into London Bridge and then use the tube to cross London. This would have additional expense for commuters and also increase pressure on the London Bridge services.

[OutOfFocus]

Does anyone have a summary of the document. I downloaded it and get put off by the extreme size and turgedness of it :-(

London Bridge - Victoria Loop: If this line is lost people commuting to Victoria would have to go into London Bridge and then use the tube to cross London. This would have additional expense for commuters and also increase pressure on the London Bridge services.

Presumably the faster trains from Denmark Hill to Victoria remain. But it is worrying if the service is reduced to 2 an hour.

[mockney piers]

I did the ED to LB commute last week as I was on a course. It had been about 5 years since that was my regular route.

I noticed the trains were as punctual as they ever were (yeah, irony tags) and the number of passengers seemed to have doubled.

On the plus side the rolling stock is a vast improvement and I'd have to disagree about the overcrowding, there was actually breathing space despite the extra numbers; one morning I even got a seat (it helps if you go near the back of the train thus facing a traumatic extra 30 seconds walk out of london bridge).

The victoria loop would definitely be a big loss, but am I right in thinking this will effectively be replaced by the east london line extension anyway?

[davidm]

presumably the loss of the train line between victoria and london bridge will be as a result of the east london tube line being extended and using the current train tracks?

[zephyr]

Never used ED station much when I lived in ED but do use Nunhead 100 times more. Good (and generally on time) services to Victoria (via peckham and Denmark Hill) and Blackfriars (via peckham and Denmark Hill and best of all Elephant and Castle). the only problem is that you cannot get a train to Victoria after 7.08pm which has been a nuisance at times when friends have come over. Never really liked ED station.

When we were in ED we used the bus to go into town but now we use the train.

[mockney piers]

>Blackfriars (via peckham and Denmark Hill and best of all Elephant and Castle)

I get that service from DH, and though a bit infrequent it runs on the whole very well. No real complaints.

[peckhamboy]

Agree that there are not enough trains before 9am (and in particular, the gap after the 7.29 is far too long for what is a peak journey time). And the fact that trains only run twice an hour from ten to eight in the evening is a constant source of irritation. I frequently work past 7.30, and have lost count of the number of times I've just missed a train and had to wait nearly half an hour for the next. Even upping it to 3 an hour would be a significant improvement.

And don't get me started on the rail replacement service when they're working on the line. Buses every half hour instead of trains every ten minutes, followed by a 45 minute journey to LB. I could walk it quicker.

[Loz]

To be fair, in the past few years since Southern took over, punctuality of the services out of ED has improved significantly. It is now something approaching a decent service.

However, as others have said, there are not enough peak services and not enough evening services. The last train from LB is far too early (23.49) - especially on Fridays and Saturdays.

The station (considering how many people use it) is a disgrace. Two leaky bike sheds does not constitute a station. I'd like to see ticket gates installed, if only for the fact that they would have to have staff in attendance (and I'd notice I had forgotten my pass before I arrived at London Bridge).

[Siduhe]

Eileen, I don't pretend to have read this document in as much detail you probably have, but when you say that London Bridge to Victoria line may be lost - which of the options under consideration are you thinking of?

Option 8.1 (recommended) talks about diverting the end point from Victoria to Victoria Eastern.

Option 8.2 refers to diverting the end point (presumably Victoria is the end point) to Clapham Junction (this option is not recommended "until phase 2 of the East London Line is completed").

Option 8.3 is about terminating London Bridge to Victoria service at Battersea Park (again, not recommended).

Options 10.1 to 10.3 are about diverting Victoria-London Bridge away from London Bridge to either Catford, Lewisham or the East London Line extension. What is said about these options is that they shouldn't be considered in isolation but are "likely to be required" to allow the Thameslink expansion work at London Bridge to take place. The London Bridge phase of the Thameslink project isn't taking place until after the Olympics I think - so 2013, and the proposal sounds more temporary than permanent to me (although the construction presumably will take more than a year or so and the consultation document is silent about what happens after the expansion work is completed - will services be restored?).

I'm personally no fan of the Thameslink proposal, but the effect is supposedly to allow lots more trains to travel via London Bridge, which should improve services for ED, Peckham Rye and Forest Hill users - do you think this will offset the (perhaps temporary/perhaps permanent) loss of the loop line in 2013?

[Eileen]

AndrewDBlack Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Does anyone have a summary of the document. I

> downloaded it and get put off by the extreme size

> and turgedness of it :-(

Iwill send you a copy of the briefing the Council has produced on it - not a summary but a bit more info.

>

> London Bridge - Victoria Loop: If this line is

> lost people commuting to Victoria would have to go

> into London Bridge and then use the tube to cross

> London. This would have additional expense for

> commuters and also increase pressure on the London

> Bridge services.

>

> Presumably the faster trains from Denmark Hill to

> Victoria remain. But it is worrying if the service

> is reduced to 2 an hour.

Yes it seems this is what they are planning for after the East London Line Extension came into operation. Probably less trains to London Bridge as well.

[Eileen]

mockney piers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The victoria loop would definitely be a big loss,

> but am I right in thinking this will effectively

> be replaced by the east london line extension

> anyway?

It looks as if it is the East London Line Extension (ELLX) that could end the Loop Line between Victoria and London Bridge. The problem is that the ELLX would go to Clapham Junction and not Victoria or London Bridge. It is possible that the ELLX will mean the reduction of services to both Victoria and London Bridge. That is what we need to probe to get views into the strategic planning now - which is what we are currently being consulted on (at least theoretically as few people know they are being consulted). Those who do know, and who have studeid this, are suggesting that there are alternatives and that some extra things need to be considered in this long term strategy. So it is a real chance to influence how all this develops for south London commuters. But some people need to be be willing to get into the details and discussion. That is what I hope our meeting on 2nd October will help more of us to do.

[Eileen]

Siduhe Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Eileen, I don't pretend to have read this document

> in as much detail you probably have, but when you

> say that London Bridge to Victoria line may be

> lost - which of the options under consideration

> are you thinking of?

I haven't read it in detail! It appears from what I have skimmed in this and other material that they are proposing to stop the Loop Line once the ELLX is in place, and reducing the services to Victoria and London Bridge. But I am not on top of the details. The purpose of the meeting on 2nd Ocober is to share information and insghts into what is being considered and to identlfy clearly what we need to understand and alert others to as necessary. It is also possible that we can lobby for things they are not considering like connecting the lines at Brixton station bringing the Victoria tube line to our doorsteps almost. I thimk the view is growing from the users' end that there needs to be some radical thinking to try to get real improvements to inner south London services. The consultation on the South London RUS is the right time to try to provoke this. If you are free, why not come to the meeting on 2nd October and be informed and contirbute to the thinking?

[richfish]

I agree we need some sort of rail or public transport passenger group for the area. Lambeth have a really good one I think, perhaps they could help out with setting one up or widen their area? Where is the meeting to be held?

I generally cycle to work in Clerkenwell but use the train once/twice a week either because of early meetings or late nights out. It is absurd that the service from ED at peak hours is effectively a reduced service - I took this up with Southern who said they realised the problem but could not do anything about it as the reason is congestion at London Bridge! I agree that we also need to lobby for an increased service in the evening, 3 an hour would be better than what we have now, 4 an hour would be even better. Then there is the lack of Oyster pre-pay which for interim travellers like myself means that I pay more for my transport costs than anyone else in a zone 2 area unless I travel enough to buy a peak hours travel card. And lastly the station - its disgusting and the ticket machine is beyond a joke - reminds me of pre 1990's eastern europe. I have taken these points up with Val Shawcross AM who is sympathetic but doesn't seem to have any real power to effect change. And the Council just don't seem even interested let alone willing to do something. Lets hope citizen action can do something.

[Michael Palaeologus]

I use the ED service regularly and concur with the observations that:

- The trains have got better and longer with less crowding

- The rush hour times are a joke

- South East London commuters are treated like sh*t - it is always jam tomorrow

There is a rationale in reducing trains into Victoria and indeed London Bridge and replacing them with services that take people to the East or West of the centre. This approach feeds people into the network waway from the major nodes which are currently creaking. Many commuters that go through Victoria or London Bridge are actually heading for east central and west central destinations; the idea is that they can do this without going through the centre.

[AllforNun]

Nunhead station all the way for me - great services to both Victoria and Blackfriars - heavily used. Nice little ride through the park from ED and leave the bike near the station no problems. The amazing view across the entire city is also a bonus. Worth a trip on Nov 5th !

[Asset]

there's a surprise