Stabbing Peckham today Fri. 28th April

[DulwichFox]

A Young man 20's has been Fatally Stabbed in Rye Lane Peckham this afternoon.

http://www.standard.co.uk/topic/peckham

When will this carnage end.?

DulwichFox

[malumbu]

A sad event.

To put into context murder rates in the UK are similar to many of our close neighbours, much lower than the US, and dwarfed by Venezuela. San Marino, Monoco and Andorra reported no murders. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

What to do? Ignore it as it probably wont affect any of us, many murdered by those none to them, or in situations that we don't get involved in - we'd have to be pretty unlucky. Or work with communties, through education etc.

Did a course with someone from the Met forensic labs once. He told me that we are experts in the forensics of knife crime - often during domestic arguments where one or other partner grabs a kitchen knife. Where as in the US a gun will be grabbed.

Not triviliasing this, just adding some context. I've seen three pub brawls, been threatened a couple of times when cycling, and not a lot more in 30 years of living in London including seeing a fair amount of football. But there again I am reasonably streetwise and don't come across as a victim.

[DulwichFox]

Back in the day there were scraps in The Palmerston .. Foresters.. Plough.. Uplands virtually every night.

People did not resort to Stabbing each other.

This has been 'Lounged' because it happened in Peckham, but it is very much an E.D. Issue.

It's on our doorstep. Many E.D. residents use Peckham Rye Station and probably use Blenheim Grove on there way home.

I was robbed in Brockley in the 80's. I was not knocked about or threatened with a weapon. I was just thrisked

and my credit cards taken. Did not have mobile phones back then.

We live in a much more dangerous age. The situation is out of control.

People are not safe. How ever big you may be.

Something has to be done. Before some one gets killed. ??? It's too late for that.

DulwichFox.

[TheCat]

Gotta say I'm with fox here. If caught carrying a knife mandatory sentences.....

[KidKruger]

I think it's subjective comparing now to the 80s, there were definitely plenty knives then. People carried and football supporters still had Stanley knives.

I'm sure a couple of years ago there were all these stats saying how significantly knife crime had fallen, I guess there'll be fluctuations constantly over time.

[rendelharris]

Every murder is terrifying and tragic in its way, and the recent explosion of a murder a day in the last week is awful, but just for some perspective, in 1990 there were 184 homicides in London, 1991 184, 1992 175...a gradual decline with peaks occasionally (2003 204) down to 2012 89, 2013 86, 2014 83, 2015 118...so it's bad, but it isn't really getting worse: similarly nationally, 2002 1047 murders, declining year on year to 550 in 2011, 573 in 2015 - fewer than in 1980 (600+). There were 300+ murders in 1898, when the population was less than half the size it is now, 500+ in 1946 with the population roughly 60% of what it is now.

Not belittling anything, just thought some people might be interested.

[TheCat]

Who is it? Is it kids carrying these knives?

[Angelina]

well it's not the oldies is it.

[Mark]

Nice perspective backed with facts rendelharris, thanks.

Some older people didn't know about the bad things when they grew up but now we have the news shoved in our faces it exaggerates it to make it seem like it's all, well, just outside, on our doorstep. That leads to people becoming more scared and thinking the world out there is more dangerous, fear leads to contempt and suspicion of others. The reality is different, yes there is knife crime, yes there are muggings but a insular life resigned to "we're all going to get killed on the streets by warriors who have come out to play" isn't a life with the correct perspective.

Foxy, it's not "carnage out there" and most people are safe, in fact most people are nice and friendly. It'll be daft to say there's not a small amount of risk in city of 9 million people but please, lay off the biblical it's armageddon out there stuff. Is it really helpful to be spreading the doom from your armchair rather than doing something about it? I apologise if you are doing something in the real world to help.

I say this as someone who's been stood by to someone as they were shot a with a sawn-off then stabbed, dealt with two people severely glassed in the face and seen someone have their head stamped on and fractured, all in the space of a year about 25 years ago, aka "the good old days". I know bad shit happens but in my opinion, help out if you can, and information supplied by others about things nd outside your control, well, maybe question your own perspective every now and then to see if your view is the only (correct) view.

[Huggers]

this is terrible, on top of the human tragedy, has it affected access to the station do you think? asking as meeting north London friends at station tomorrow and don't want to totally freak them out now they've crossed the river.

[Jah Lush]

Excellent posts from Rendel and Mark. Shit happens. Always has done always will. Some perspective is needed instead of stupid scaremongering. Incidentally, I was down Rye Lane earlier on my to The Montpelier and wondered why traffic had been diverted before I turned into Choumert Road. Now I know. Sadly, these things happen once in a while.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

I was robbed at knifepoint in Dulwich Park 20 years ago. Two kids took my friend's bike and cut my tyre with a Stanley knife to stop me chasing. Things are much better, not much worse, than they used to be.

Mandatory sentences do very little to stop weapon carrying because - you'll be surprised to hear - the kind of people who carry weapons don't spend a lot of time reading legislation or the court reports in the local paper. They're a great way of locking up kids at huge expense, though.

[DulwichFox]

Jah Lush Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Excellent posts from Rendel and Mark. Shit

> happens. Always has done always will. Some

> perspective is needed instead of stupid

> scaremongering. Incidentally, I was down Rye Lane

> earlier on my to The Montpelier and wondered why

> traffic had been diverted before I turned into

> Choumert Road. Now I know. Sadly, these things

> happen once in a while.

Once in a while. ? Six people stabbed to death in a week. ?

Mark. 'Most people are safe.' Are They. Attacks are mostly indiscriminate. No one is Safe..

.. and it could be solved. .. but it kind of costs too much to lock up everyone caught with a knife.

DulwichFox

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

I had 2 eggs this morning. Yesterday I had 1. If this trend keeps up, I'll be eating more than 3 million eggs a day by next May!!!

(For the less perceptive: a comment on how to look at numbers).

[Louisa]

It's good to have perspective put on these things, but in reality, it is on our doorstep and it takes incidents such as these to often shock us as a society into doing something about it. The police have their hands tiedin more ways than one. Firstly, the overall budget has been significantly cut which emboldens criminals into thinking they have a free for all in certain neighborhoods. The opportunistic types such as those scum on mopeds stealing phones are prime examples of that. Secondly, the police are often marginalised and left to feel like the bad guys because of do-gooder types always coming down on the side of the criminals. Unnecessary investigations into police conduct, light sentences being handed out for violent crimes, even after extensive work has done by the police to get hold of these scumbags and take them off our streets.

All you hear on forums such as this are people saying crime has fallen, everything is rosy and lovely, chances are it won't happen to you or us. That's not the attitude to take, we should be clamping down on these people with a heavy hand, untying police and judicial hands. Working as a community to confront these people with all resources available. Stop with this light handed approach, it's clearly not working.

Louisa.

[uncleglen]

Louisa is right. They even comment on the cop reality shows in a veiled sarcastic way about how the cops spend all day catching crims who are then let out on bail and disappear to carry on making our lives a misery. I recently had the misfortune to be involved in the dog and pony show that is the cps and judicial system....the cops involved were brilliant and professional at all times but they had hours of their time wasted after they had done all the work. There are NO excuses for the utter shambles that followed. Also the actual law seems to favour the crims- to what extent this can be changed after brexit remains to be seen.

[Jules-and-Boo]

"These things happen"????? oh, ok.. that's reassuring - I was about to be concerned. So long as we shoudl just take it in our stride.

Passive acceptance of murder. Outrageous opinion.

While we can all be safe and happy knowing that Peckham is the Best Place to Live in London it might be better to actually write to your MP and complain about the lack of police presence and budget cuts and MAYBE when there's another General Election actually vote according to your hopes for your community.

[steveo]

Unless there's a policeman standing between the assailant and the victim how exactly would a police presence help?

[tasha1]

I've worked in the criminal justice system for years, working with the client group who commit such offences. Tough (er) sentences do not deter individuals who commit this kind of offence. They are often well aware but they simply don't care and truely believe they are invincible and won't get caught. To say the sentences are too lenient is not really the problem and however many visible police are deployed, it honestly wouldn't act as a deterrent for many. If this individual is caught , and he needs to be caught very quickly before he becomes even more convinced he can get away with anything, he would not be granted bail and would recieve a significant custodial sentence. Although crime rates are lower, there is a minority of young people who have no value on life, be it their victims and often their own lives. It's truely awful for victims and their families and friends as well as causing much fear within communities. There's always going to be a risk, even just walking on your own road but it's important to remember that, although it doesn't necessarily feel like this at present, this is a rare occurrence and it's important that we continue to enjoy our parks and community spaces as we have been doing and try not to see these now as areas as no go areas

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

People don't want to hear informed insight, they want to recycle vague and unsubstantiated things they heard on reality shows while they were finishing off the last of the Vienetta.

Lock em all up, it's the only language I understand.

[Robert Poste's Child]

'Client group': is this really how services think of these criminal types? God help us.

[tasha1]

This is why I rarely post in the forum for fear of others being unkind. Would it help if I used the word service users or refer to them as scumbags? I'm not in the slightest condoning their behaviour so saying they should get away with it. Harsh penalties are necessary an divenot said otherwise

[Louisa]

Untie the hands of the police and judicial services so tough and appropriate measures can be taken to prevent these people from being a threat to our communities. Big issues around funding too of front line services which this Government has a lot to answer for. Some people are good and others are not, it really does come down to the basics with this stuff. Lots of people have had a tough upbringing, most didn't go on to commit crime and attack innocent people. Others choose that path, and I don't believe we should waste resources trying to figure out why they do this stuff, we need to just remove them from the community to prevent them from hurting others.

Louisa.

[dbboy]

Those taking the life of another are simply the lowest of the low, scum. They have no idea nor care about the consequences of their actions as they lash out, and the long term hurt and pain the relatives suffer as a result of losing a family member in such a callous and senseless manner.

[tasha1]

I totally agree. The absolute devastation caused is immeasurable and for what? One point I was trying to make is that the perpetrators (probably a better word than client group) often lack any kind of remorse for their actions and it's still beyond my comprehension how callous they come across. Yes, probably 99 percent of people I've supervised have had truely awful childhoods but as already pointed out, the majority of people who experience equally awful childhoods, do not behave in a violent manner and a traumatic upbringing is not an excuse for violence. Another point I was trying to make is that, when the perpetrators of these awful attacks are caught (and sooner the better), they will be 'locked up' and rightly so. The difficulty for services is that they cannot arrest someone for what they are deemed to be capbbale of doing to someone at some point in their lives. They can only be picked up and removed from society once they have committed an offence. If police believe or have intelligence, they can of course stop and search for weapons or if the person has made threats etc. It's exceedingly difficult to identify and preempt someone's behaviour. Perpetrators don't factor in sentencing guidelines. They don't stop and think of the consequences for the victim, family or indeed for themselve because my experience has shown me that they don't care or do a damm good job of pretending, as well as believing they won't get caught. I've had people identified as a real concern and the police cannot do anything on hearsay or gut feeling. I don't know what the answer is but locking everyone up (and im not sure how it would be determined who gets locked up) isn't practically feasible. I think its tragic that some individuals have no regard for human life. Last point is that perpetrators who commit the most hineous of crimes, such as murder, attempted murder, extremely rarely have committed such offences before and rarely do again (please don't shoot the messanger as this is fact) and therefore, again makes it very difficult for services within the criminal justice system to preempt and prevent.