Waitrose or M&S TYPE supermarket - do we want one on LL?

[granadaland]

If the votes are being totted up, it's a No from me.

[Atticus]

Spose a Lidl (superstore)is out of the question?

[AlexC]

My vote would be a yes, ideally for a Waitrose but it would depend on the specifics, i.e. where it would be located. In an ideal world, it would replace the Co-op which never seems that well stocked when I go in. For me personally it wouldn't effect my spending on LL as I tend to go to Sainsbury's or the Waitrose in Beckenham for my main food shop anyway. I'd still use LL for what it's good for - speciality shops and nice cafes/restaurants.

[Dorothy]

I still vote no but, honestly, the Co-Op was just dire at 6pm this evening. I reckon 50% of the fresh food shelf space was empty. No tomatoes, no bananas, no dried pasta apart from lasagne or spaghetti, about 10 loaves of bread all white sliced, no bagels, no pitta bread, only one real choice of bagged salad. And it was freezing cold in there with both sets of doors open. It was awful, dingy and miserable.

[uplandsneighbour]

The best place for an aspirational supermarket would be the Village rather than LL. Then the aspirational ones among us could satisfy all our longings in suitably aspirational surroundings while shopping for aspirational bananas, while the proles could stick with the much-deplored Iceland or the Coop, or even choose between the big Sainsbury and the little Sainsbury! Why isn't that an option, Mr Barber?

Completely second the posts about LL shops that can't be bothered to stay open late, which means that one is forced to go without the joys of nipping out for a bit of aspirational cheese or aspirational fillet steak, or even aspirational mung dal if one is a commuting wage-slave - that is, of course, if one hasn't been knocked down by the traffic swooshing down LL because one hasn't bothered to trundle all the way down to the existing crossings...

what happened to the long-awaited extra crossing outside the Coop? Or is this being delayed until it can facilitate our crossing to an aspirational LL supermarket?

[SeanMacGabhann]

I'm no supermarket user but had cause to pop in to the co op at just after 6 and was gobsmacked by the place. It was almost worse than Dorothy describes. Ive never seen a shop like it

[Sue]

They don't seem to have had any deliveries since the holiday.

But I don't want to make excuses for them, because sadly it does seem to be quite badly managed, in terms of stock control at least.

It's a shame, because I like their ethical approach, but what good is that if you can't get even very basic things which you need there?

[Senor Chevalier]

Twirly and others have made the "why don't some of the independent shops open later?" point on the previous page.

Seems to me that the main argument in favour of a Waitrose is that we could get nice grub after work. LL is clearly awash with good nosh daytime. As it is I occasionally nip to William Rose on the dot of 8am mid week and get to work a little late but only as it is 50 yards from my door. Otherwise I am left sifting through the rubble at Co-op around 8pm.

The scores so far seem to be largely anti-Waitrose though there is a material portion (perhaps a third or so) that are in favour. This is significant and whilst my vote is "no" (careful not to double-count it) I agree wholeheartedly with the late opening line of argument.

The local independent foodshops have reason to be concerned as there is a persistent groundswell of opinion and let's face it LL wouldn't be the first high street to suffer the forces of embourgeoisement.

Perhaps the best way to nip this in the bud would be for local food retailers to perhaps put heads together and try a later opening day mid week - say Wednesday. Then the Waitrophiles would no longer have a leg to stand on.

I'm thinking bakery, butcher and veg (I assume nobody wants day old fish). If they tried it would we go or would it be one of those things we moan about and then fail to support when the change actually happens? Would it work or are VP, WR and BB too disparate? Do all roads lead back to the People's Supermarket - the one-stop shop for nice food of an evening?

This should perhaps be a separate thread...

[Ghina]

I reckon would be nice if we could get rid of cafe Nero, Iceland, coop, or even White stuff and replace with m&s food or even better, a waitrose! :)

[MichaelNx]

The original question posed was "How do people feel about an aspirational supermarket on LL" but it's been changed now to ask if they'd like a Waitrose or an M&S type food store on LL.

James also added that the bit about 'too much money leaving the area to be spent in Sainsbury's etc';'

Surely this makes it a slightly different question than the one we started with? Anyone coming new to this thread might be rightly confused by the references to "aspirational" and snobbery etc., in the responses.

Given that James now wants money to be spent in the area rather than in Sainsbury's, ought he not to be campaigning for people to shop more locally instead of at an additional supermarket on Lordship Lane.

And isn't it a bit odd that James is anti Sainsbury's, and by implication, anti Iceland and Co-op but pro Waitrose and M&S? Is it right to be lobbying for a personal brand preference like this?

[Jeremy]

MichaelNx Wrote:

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> And isn't it a bit odd that James is anti

> Sainsbury's, and by implication, anti Iceland and

> Co-op but pro Waitrose and M&S? Is it right to be

> lobbying for a personal brand preference like

> this?

Where did he say he's anti-Sainsbury's?

I don't think he's lobbying for Waitrose/M&S, he is asking whether people want it.

[Ridgley]

I think people will, will shop where they can afford to LL does have a sense of snobbery about it and it does not cater for all ED residents it not just the middles classes that live there I don?t shop there it does not have a great selection for me personally and maybe that is why people are shopping elsewhere if you want members of the public to spend there money there James it needs more choice. Peckham, Lewisham, Camden, for me has more of a diverse choice.

[KidKruger]

I'd be happy just to see Co-Op have decent fresh produce on their shelves after 1600. They are shooting themselves in the foot by not doing so, heavens know why they run it down to a mini-Ethiopia each day. People can't get produce on way home from work / want ready made meals to heat-up. Co-Op could do that.

There used to be a late opening day didn't there ? Wasn't it Thursday ?

Waitrose/M&S is just the next step to turning ED into a shite hole. I suppose it's predictable that it's part of the progression, just look at other areas that stepped through the same sequence. However, it'll be a real shame if the 'protectors' of ED eventually spoil it by supporting suggested shops. Better to improve what we ALREADY have locally me thinks via dialogue and demonstrating popular demand, then everyone wins surely.

[MichaelNx]

@ Jeremy

I took the bit about too much money leaving the area to be spent in Sainsbury's to mean he wasn't in favour of them. Although Sainsbury's in DKH and at the top of LL aren't exactly that far out of the area.

James does say he feels it would help the area to have an anchor type food store and has a site in mind having specifically named Waitrose and M&S. It seems like lobbying for a Waitrose/M&S on LL to me?

[Keef]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> I'm no supermarket user

Bless you.

[bonaome]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> Waitrose/M&S is just the next step to turning ED

> into a shite hole. I suppose it's predictable

> that it's part of the progression, just look at

> other areas that stepped through the same

> sequence.

---------------------------------------------------------

Yeah - such as Brixton, Lewisham and the Walworth Road - just looks what's happened to those places since M&S moved in.

[KidKruger]

bonaome - the brand of shite i was alluding to was the High St over-populate with big names kind of shite, sort of thang. NOT the brand of shite to which I think you are now alluding. I should have been clearer in my shite branding.

[familyguy]

I wonder how many of the people voting 'for', actually live close enough to LL to look forward to every day getting home from work, only to have to park 10 minutes walk away due to the already lack of parking. Bringing a brand such as M&S will only make things worse. Imagine how much extra revenue Southwark will raise from all the extra parking tickets issued by people just popping in for 'absolute necessity'. Do we really need more of those ridiculous Smart cars with cameras on top waiting just to catch us out.

We already have Sainsburys, Sainsburys Local, Iceland, Co-op, as well as two GREAT independant grocery stores.

East Dulwich physically cannot accomodate another supermarket!

[Horsebox]

Familyguy, it's only the idiots who can't read parking restriction signs that would need to worry about getting fined.

[Alec John Moore]

I'm liking where this thread might be going. By that I mean that there is a growing recongnition in the postings that it could be possible to lobby for changes to the service provided by LL's food retailers. I'd be happy for the Co-op to raise its game in terms of customer service - stock levels etc - since I like their ethical stance and would want to be able to do more shopping there.

However, I seem to recall that when Somerfield was revamped a few years ago they had a small fresh fish stall. That may well have closed due to lack of patronage. That is a shame and it is interesting that Moxons seems to be surviving further up the Lane. As with the farmers' market that is being clamoured for on another thread, any new provision will only survive and thrive if we play our part.

[Jeremy]

Keef Wrote:

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> SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> > I'm no supermarket user

> Bless you.

I liked that bit too! I'm sure I saw him the other day sneaking out of Sainsbury's with a pack of "Bi?re des Moulins", and a frozen chocolate gateaux.

[AcedOut]

If everyone just boycotts the Iceland and Coop, then there may be hope. These places are not needed.

+1 for a Whole Foods (or more realistically MS/Waitrose)

[Keef]

What a silly thing to say.

[TJ]

Waitrose will do wonders for house prices. I'm all for it.

:-P

[Atticus]

Houseprices you say...

Well I suppose Waitrose do offer good fresh produce and wider aisles.