Waitrose or M&S TYPE supermarket - do we want one on LL?

[huncamunca]

not really, but its a bit fucking tiresome reading various regurgutations of the same old waitrose M&S shite year after year

[huncamunca]

JB - you do half decent work ( for a libdem )in the area & I have some grudging respect for your involvement but this thread is obviously a troll.

[sambobia]

pablogrande Wrote:

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> One thing that would help a lot of the shops is a

> custmer service course, I can think of at least

> five I won't shop in due to poor attitudes.

Spot on. I have experienced woefully poor service on occasion in several ED independents, though consistently excellent service in others.

[DVdad]

I'm in favour of an aspirational supermarket and I'd love the excuse to spend some time on Lordship Lane, if parking were not an issue (have too many children to make popping out for a banana feasible). I live in the village and remain hugely disappointed by the food choices (the italian deli and Shepherds are not aspirational enough, while Romeo Jones is far too expensive and limited).

[Huguenot]

The first thing local retailers should do is get together to do that study into where their customers are coming from, how they got there, if they drove where they parked, and how long they'll stick around.

There shouldn't be any decisions being made until they have basic information, and they can do it themselves!

[sillywoman]

Yes, I'm in favour of an M&S, or waitrose too. Personal preference for M&S, but not fussed. Wouldn't need Co-op then, but would quite like to keep Iceland. Not sure why, possibly just nostalgia? Hmmmmm?

[silverfox]

Strikes me you're all so busy objecting to up-market supermarkets you forget that ED is in danger of being taken over by estate agents.

Start at Goose Green and walk up the Lane.

Of course Legalbeagle will object. If Waitrose comes in expect at least ?2 off a bottle of Green & Blue's overpriced (in the absence of competition) wine.

[legalbeagle]

silverfox Wrote:

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>

> Of course Legalbeagle will object. If Waitrose

> comes in expect at least ?2 off a bottle of Green

> & Blue's overpriced (in the absence of

> competition) wine.

My objection is personal and not to do with G&B, I actually don't think it would make that much difference to the shop. We don't sell the same wine as a supermarket and we already have plenty of competition on the Lane. Whether or not you consider us overpriced is, I guess, a matter of personal opinion but the fact is that our margins are much smaller than many, if not most, wine retailers.

So thanks for the thoughts silverfox, but we'll agree to disagree on that one.

[silverfox]

Bravo legalbeagle!

Love the snobbery about "... We don't sell the same wine as a supermarket..."

If Waitrose moved in (more than 1,200 wines, spirits and champagnes to choose from) I think you'd find you may have to think again about selling a couple of bottle wines for ?25 without the common courtesy of a plastic carrier bag. Otherwise you may find how fickle the ED ? is.

[brum]

Oh get real Silverfox. There's nothing snobbish about explaining that G&B and a major supermarket chain sell different products. G&B is very popular and for good reason. It is a local independent retailer that provides a good service and sells good quality products - just the sort of place which makes ED stand out from the rest, all for very good reasons.

The real argument here is about the impact an additional major supermarket chain will have on LL. Sure, the number of estate agents may be an issue, but that wasn't the question, was it? Why not start your own thread up about it?

[silverfox]

I hope your loyalty is rewarded with a 10% discount brum (and a plastic bag).

My point was a Waitrose would threaten G&B's business - how could it not? Legalbeagle's wording was "...We don't sell the same wine as a supermarket..." (the implication being one of superiority) not that they sell different products.

In my opinion a Waitrose would be a welcome addition to ED and might shake up the local independents into providing even better service.

[legalbeagle]

Silverfox - again you misunderstand me. It's not snobbery, and the inference you took from my sentence was entirely your own invention. It was a statement of fact. We don't sell the same wine as Waitrose or M&S, or Sainsburys or Co-op. We have a supermarket a few doors down selling wine, and an independent wine retailer almost opposite, and a wine chain not far away, and people still buy wine from us as well. I don't claim "superiority" I claim that we are different, and that, despite the existence of that competition, people stil buy from us. And I believe that if Waitrose and M&S come along, they will still buy from us.

Like I said, this is a personal and not a professional opinion.

[drew]

I prefer a "Peoples Supermarket" concept. A large chain store like Waitrose or M&S would be against what makes LL unique, and also force some of the independents out of business.

[ImpetuousVrouw]

I just want to make the point that it is large supermarket's buying power and stranglehold on suppliers which means that they can drive down their prices, not that smaller businesses are necessarily over pricing their produce whatever it is they are selling.

[brum]

You chose to read into something which just isn't there, Silverfox. I repeat, there is nothing wrong in stating the difference in what is being sold. Nothing snobbish or superior about that. Its just a fact. Do you want small independent shops to fail? If you're for another supermarket then that's up to you, but this argument is not just about plastic bags or the price of a bottle of wine or customer loyalty for that matter... You are just trivialising the issue.

[louisiana]

silverfox Wrote:

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> Bravo legalbeagle!

>

> Love the snobbery about "... We don't sell the

> same wine as a supermarket..."

They don't.

I've bought wine regularly from Waitrose over the last 30+ years (and more recently Waitrose wines via Ocado), and regularly from G&B since it opened. While I'm no expert, I have been an amateur follower of wines from certain countries for 25+ years (having lived and worked in those countries for 15+ years), and have written about a number of wine producers and wine outlets for the national and specialist press, so perhaps know slightly more than average about the subject.

In terms of price/quality, Waitrose does not come out ahead: it's often G&B that comes out with more interesting wines in the ?6.50-?10 range, for example, and considering the movement of the euro against the pound in recent times that's no mean feat. G&B does not have supermarket buying power, but given what I've seen in terms of the compromises supermarkets force wine producers to make, I think supermarket buying power is very much over-rated.

It's G&B, not Waitrose, that always has someone on hand to advise on particular purchases (e.g. a gift of something you don't normally buy). Sadly, not even Waitrose employs anyone on the shop floor that knows one iota about wine, and you'd be hard-pressed to find any supermarket shop-floor worker that has actually tried anything that they sell and can talk about it.

G&B has plenty of theoretical competition in ED (Nicholas etc.) but in practice it's not competition: all those other outlets sell, to varying degrees, wine that doesn't deserve the name. For me, the USP of G&B is that I can be pretty sure that I won't walk out with a bottle of rubbish, even when it's something I wouldn't normally buy and know nothing about.

The fact that I can also drink the same on the premises for a mark-up far more reasonable than any restaurant is a bonus definitely worth having.

If your main concern about a specialist wine shop is the bags they do or don't offer... A little odd, to say the least. You can get rubbish 'wine' in plastic bags anywhere at all.

[KestonKid]

I agree with Twirly.

Lordship Lane is a delightful mixture of shops as it is. Can't think of another in London like it. East Dulwich must look very attractive to some of the large chains, but please do not listen to their siren songs, Mr Barber.

New Year Resolution: In this household we will try to use the independent local shops even more and encourage the Co-op to raise its game.

[louisiana]

Totally agree, KestonKid, about encouraging the Co-op to raise its game. While I'm not entirely hopeful that national juggernauts can be influenced, there's nothing to be lost by giving it a go.

[Gubodge]

Is there any evidence to support the theory that a decent supermarket on LL would bring more people to the local independents? I know that although I have been to Waitrose often, I have never even set foot on Beckenham high street and I wouldn't have thought I was unusual in that.

[Twirly]

Slightly off topic, but I do wonder why some of our local independents do close as early as they do. And I wonder if they?d do more business if they opened later and closed later, thereby catching the business of people on their way home from work.

For example, I do sometimes manage to nip into SMBS on the way home just before they close. I don?t know what time they open, but if they stayed open till say 7 or even 8 (maybe even just one or two nights a week) would they do more business? I believe that Pretty Traditional open at 7.30am, but are closed by 5.30pm. Would they do more business if they opened at 8.30 but closed at 6.30? Although I realise that as they bring their supplied from the market very early, this might not be very practical for them.

[Thomas Micklewright]

No Thanks James.

Im really pleased with SMBS, East Dulwich Supermarket and The Co-Op (great ethical products especially those BUAV approved).

Thanks

Thomas

[citizenED]

I'd say no to a Waitrose/M&S on the Lane; it would only encourage folk to park directly outside and then start more anti-traffic warden threads when they got fined.

[MsDulwich]

No thanks! A Sainsbury's Superstore, an Iceland, a Co-Op, a Tesco's and an array of independent shops is more than enough for our lovely East Dulwich. I wouldn't want to see Lordship Lane change into a mainstream looking high street and to lose its originality and it's distinct character.

[ziggy]

no

[henryb]

Please no. The best thing about East Dulwich is all the independent shops in Lordship Lane and the community spirit they bring. You can actually get know shop owners who in turn have a long term interest in their customers and the area.

Turning Lordship Lane in yet another bland corporate high street, a clone of pretty much every other high street in the country would be just depressing.