Waitrose or M&S TYPE supermarket - do we want one on LL?

[RosieH]

Cheap jibe David? Well here's another. I'd rather someone with your working background didn't hold supermarkets up as the root of all evil. My views on supermarkets actually have nothing to do with my having worked for one.

The point is that some people prefer shopping at supermarkets because it's convenient. They can park their cars, they can shop for bargains (and as was pointed out, lots of people do go to more than one to get those bargains), they can buy massive fuck-off packs of washing powder that they wouldn't be able to carry down the street while pushing a pram and carrying their chicken carcasses from William Rose.

When it comes to food, I agree with both David and Sean. But you two don't have the monopoly on attitudes to food. Not everyone enjoys shopping for food, or cooking things slowly. And even all the people that do, don't always have the luxury of time to do things with cheap cuts of meat (inevitably slow cooking). I think it's a crying shame that we've lost the skill to make a stew, but try doing that on a Saturday morning in between taking the kids swimming, to football, to a party, cleaning the house and trying to find half an hour to put your feet up after working all week.

I think there's a real lack of empathy in the assumption that everyone should learn to cook and make a nice chicken stock and then we wouldn't need supermarkets.

[SeanMacGabhann]

all of which might be true but I suspect it's more the x-factor watching/gym going fraternity posting on here

and if there is something good about building massive car parks encouraging people to drive around even more, I've missed it

I am confused tho -is it people don't want to spend time cooking or can't? I suspect most people have just pushed it to the bottom of their priority list. Their choice. But if it genuinely is "I think it's a crying shame that we've lost the skill to make a stew" then you might want to look a bit harder at the reasons why

there are people with no time or money, which helps your argument and for that I agree with you. But that argument doesn't stack up against most people arguing for the supermarkets in question on here. They choose to do other things - that is their right and if they want to argue the toss with the likes of me and Carnell as to which is a better use of time then let them. But suggesting that the masses in the area are downtrodden and don't have the time is a nonsense

Money and time were both a lot scarcer 50 years ago and yet people seem to remember their parents making good meals at home - no way do I believe we are less able as a nation to do the same. We might not want to but it's a different argument and doesn't mean I lack empathy

[RosieH]

Yes, we've rather moved from the particular to the general. In regard to the particular, I'd like to state categorically that I have no desire for another supermarket. We have plenty already and I barely use Sainsbury's DKH or the Co-op LL as it is.

There are some people who can't or don't like to cook. There are others who lack the time. And others who lack the inclination. It would be great if we could turn back the clock to the days before ready meals, so that a tin of soup was enough when you come back from work and you don't have any food in, but those days are long since behind us. People have become used to being able to get a bag of salad to go with their fresh (and often rubbish) pasta, myself included, no matter my passion for food.

I haven't suggested the masses are downtrodden, so I'm not sure if that was aimed at me. I just believe that there should be choice for those who don't want to make their own court bouillon at 8pm on a rainy Tuesday.

[SeanMacGabhann]

well it is you who is defining that choice - If i'm short of time and money I consider neither making a "court bouillon" or having a "microwave lasagne" (shudder - thanks jeremy) on a rainy Tuesday

I'm not suggesting turning back clocks - I'm just using information available to us to make a better choice. You say people want the convenience of this stuff but come on, everyone knows how they feel when they have had shit processed food. They feel shit.

[karter]

I don't think another supermarket on LL is needed either but i do wish that co-op would keep good stock levels up. Recently tried to buy fruits and veggies and their stock level was incredibly low. I hope the manager hears us.

[SeanMacGabhann]

if only there was somewhere else that sold fruit and veggies within 50 yards

sorry, I'm being facetious now but come on - is co-op the only option for fruit and veg? there has NEVER in 10 years been a reason for me to buy fruit or veg in co-op or somerfield before it

And they ain't cheap

[RosieH]

I know Sean, I do. But for some people, food is just fuel. These days, most supermarkets will have reduced the salt and removed hydrogenated fats and the like, so it's actually often no worse for you than something you've cooked yourself. Whether it's no worse for your soul is an altogether different question.

And apologies for suggesting you lack empathy. That's not fair. It's just on this issue, you and David only seem to be prepared to see one side, and it surprises me.

[RosieH]

Oh, and the court bouillon was cheeky hyperbole, as well you know ;-)

[silverfox]

If Iceland and the Co-op are too down market and Waitrose and M&S too aspirational, what about a Morrisons?

[zeban]

There's a big Morrisons in Peckham which is really good, I like their offers on fruit and veg. I'm sure people could go just go to Peckham it's hardly far.

I think ultimately people on this thread would be happy if the Co-op pulled its socks up and the local shops stay open later sometimes. Not sure why this thread is still going...

[peterstorm1985]

karter Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't think another supermarket on LL is needed

> either but i do wish that co-op would keep good

> stock levels up. Recently tried to buy fruits and

> veggies and their stock level was incredibly low.

> I hope the manager hears us.

Sorry if someone has already mentioned this but I notice that Which? magazine has the results of its annual supermarket survey. 1st Waitrose, 2nd M&S. And who was last? Yes you've guessed it, the Co-Op.

Earlier in this thread someone kindly posted a link to a complaints/ contact form for the Co-Op. If you want the manager to know your dissatisfaction about stock levels it's probably best to write to them rather than relying on the manager hearing about this thread.

[SeanMacGabhann]

But what is the other side? People lack time? People lack money? People don't care?

What am I meant to empathise with?

Food sets us up for so much else in life - and I'm certainly not advocating some gastro-porn alternative reality. Just repeating the mantra that good food exists the word over. If you aren't a famine/corrupt government afflicted nation and poor, you probably eat better than many britons. Why is that? Is it because I can't see another side or because people who eat shit (and you can reduce salt in shit but it's still shit with less salt in it) can't see another side?

[RosieH]

Don't be so bloody precious. Ready meals aren't de facto shit, just because they're processed. I've heard nutritionists (on R4, not at my place of work!) talk about how the nutrition content of ready meals is no worse than anything else.

What you're meant to see the other side of is all of the above - lacking time, money or inclination. Doesn't matter - they're entitled to buy whatever the hell they want without a lecture.

[SeanMacGabhann]

A nutritionist eh? well let's not question that source - someone who has spent as many years as a nutritionist, and has to gain all those qualifications... oh hang on

But go on then - which ready meal would you recommend as tasty and moreish?

[afm71]

Rather an M&S or Waitrose than another Estate Agent.....Sainsbury's could do with the competition.

[RosieH]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> But go on then - which ready meal would you

> recommend as tasty and moreish?

Well I did have a delicious pompous arse pappardelle the other day...

Going to avoid this thread for a while, because adore you as I do MacGabhann, I fear we may come to blows. And that just won't do at all.

[david_carnell]

Oh heaven forbid anyone should be told anything they are doing might be wrong. Those mothers feeding their kids nothing but supernoodles night after night or the obese chap buying yet another tub of haagen daaz before checking into a&e with heart problems - let's just let them be. They're probably too busy, or time poor as current nomenclature has it, to make well informed choices about healthy, value-for-money food.

Nanny-state gone mad I tell thee.

[RosieH]

Ach, you're right David. You tell 'em. Burn the supermarkets (oh and the chocolate factories, and the pasta sauce makers, and the breweries, and the crisp manufacturers).

Giddy up kids, turnips for tea!

[SeanMacGabhann]

this is one of those subjects where someone says one thing, and someone else puts a whole different set of words in their mouth isn't it?

[Jeremy]

Yep. And it's an argument nobody can win. Some people enjoy cooking, and spending their Saturdays going round the butchers and greengrocers. Other people just want minimum fuss. Most people (I think) appreciate the option of both.

I just don't like it when somebody in one camp tells others that they are categorically wrong!

[SeanMacGabhann]

just for the record I don't think I (or anyone else) has said anyone who goes to a supermarket is categorically wrong

I'm arguing strongly against an M&S and a Waitrose on LL tho (and I'm partial to shopping in Waitrose, for the record)

But processed ready meals. wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrongwrong wrong wrongwrong wrong wrongwrong wrong wrongwrong wrong wrong

And you don't need me to say that - anyone who has them feels it in their BONES when they have one...

"why do I feel a bit... queasy... and argumentative... and defensive... and ick ick ick"

microwave lasagne.. purlease. No such thing should exist.

"what I'm looking for is something with the elegance of da Vinci, the boldness of Hirst, the retrospectiveness of a Hoppper"

well I have a reproduction of a Katie Price print - will that do?

"will it make my eyes bleed and I'll feel ill? yeah? alright then"

[karter]

Sean do you use the microwave for anything at all?

[SeanMacGabhann]

I Don't have a microwave k.

[RosieH]

Hey Seany, me neither! Get out of town.

[James Barber]

Someone has asked why have I raised this question now.

I think I've spotted some properties that could be stitched together very easilly to create a plot of similar size to the Coop. I don't believe anyone else has spotted this. So if I don't tell anyone it probably wont happen.

Hence why I posed this question but framed the question with concerns about car parking, etc.

And yes I have contacted the Coop but been blanked now three times. I'll have to try calling their PR dept next.

Indian restaurants. I do think the place is saturated and I've met one chap who said he owned 5 of them. Our own geographically limited curry chain with the feature the ones in the chain superfically look different to each other. Don't ask me which ones. I was told by him a year ago and have forgotten.

Estate agents. Amazed in the internet age they thrive and seem to multiply so well on Lordship Lane.