Waitrose or M&S TYPE supermarket - do we want one on LL?

[louisiana]

I'm against.

We have enough supermarkets in the area. A supermarket worth having would have a fresh fish counter and a cheese counter (and that doesn't mean M&S)... So that would be direct additional competition (and often unfair competition - promotional sales below cost) for certain local shops that are important to retain. And then there's the impact on rents for everybody, a big minus.

If I absolutely must have Waitrose lemon curd, Waitrose horseradish, or Waitrose chilli pickled onions (and I must), I can always add them to a periodic Ocado order.

I don't regard M&S as 'aspirational'. It's mostly junk/fast food (with far too much sugar) for people who are not interested in food.

Given that we now have a Sainbury's full size, Sainsbury's local (the Plough), the Co-op, and Iceland, I think that's enough. The longer we can keep the Lane predominantly independent, the better.

I would welcome another proper greengrocer on the Lane though.

[Keef]

Waitrose lemon curd cheesecake is awesome I must admit.

[legalbeagle]

No, James, please please please no. We have Co-op. We have Iceland. We have Sainsburys local. And that's enough chains. They provide choice, and competition and they have their place but we already have enough of them. Lordship Lane is regularly commented on as one of the best high streets in London precisely because we have a balance of chains and independent shops. If you introduce any more chains, whose huge buying power allows them to drive down prices to unrealistically low levels, then you put at risk all of those smaller local business who contribute to that character. And in my view that would be a huge shame.

And to be clear, yes I do part own a small local business so I may be considered partial. But this is still my opinion.

[Curmudgeon]

I like the independents on LL and Iceland, not overly fond of Co-Op but we have Tesco or Sainsbury's (x 2) and I can Ocado when I like as it's free delivery if you do it late mid-week.

So I vote No Thanks - I believe they will be detrimental to the character of the area.

[sophiesofa]

I vote no thanks

[wee quinnie]

No way.

[milk76]

Absolutely yes.

Not everyone's cup of tea but it is not going to end civilisation for those who do not wish to use it.

[evildrwallace]

Anyone who thinks another supermarket could help East Dulwich in any way simply does not understand markets, economics, and the dynamics of an area like ours. We are extremely lucky to have a thriving high street like Lordship Lane that is relatively free from chains. Another supermarket taking business from East Dulwich Deli, SMBS, the East Dulwich Supermarket, Pretty Traditional, Moxon's, William Rose, etc. etc. will only make it harder for these wonderful outlets (apologies to those I haven't mentioned) to survive. What groceries could you possibly want that you can't get in these shops? When I tell colleagues at work that we do all our shopping on foot, locally, without using supermarkets at all (unless you count East Dulwich Supermarket - really a deli) they are universally jealous. If you want to drive to a soulless mass outlet you have only to go to the Sainsbury's at Dog Kennel Hill, surely this is enough.

No, no, no, no, no. Do I make myself clear?

[nylonmeals]

Agree with what seems to be the majority view so far - we have a ton of great food options on Lordship Lane, absolutely no need for an "aspirational supermarket" as far as I am concerned in fact I think that it would have serious negative impact on our local independent shops

(thank you for asking and posting though!)

[zeban]

I would love to have a Waitrose, NOT an M & S- they're no way the same and this whole 'aspirational' thing disturbs me too, BUT not on Lordship Lane. I think one would be great around Forest Hill or Peckham, that way the independent shops in East Dulwich won't really be affected, the general look and feel of ED will stay the same, but the option for more choice from a different supermarket will be there in South East London.

Edited to add: the answer is no to having one on LL but yes to having one in the surrounding areas.

[Sue]

No. No. No.

For all the reasons everybody else has said.

It would be the thin end of the wedge in ruining the unique character of Lordship Lane with all the independent shops.

I quite like to shop in M&S or Waitrose occasionally, but I think the disadvantages of having one in ED well outweigh the advantages.

[Tarot]

More choice is better,competition is healthy, while some of the smaller bussiness.s are ok they can be a bit

elitest.Either store would be ok. Where would it be located though?and when would it happen.

[lidsey]

yes please

[louisiana]

Someone mentioned a store having a car park.

An interesting study in a Norfolk market town showing impact on local footfall, both before and after the arrival of a supermarket: http://www.tescopoly.org/images/stories/stalham%20deposition2.doc

The irony being that it was the original footfall data that encouraged the council to support a new supermarket... and then the data fell off the cliff once the supermarket opened. Interesting comments from the (originally supportive) local councillor too, and interesting point about the reductions in business rates caused by the arrival (with the council accepting that Tesco caused values of other business premises to fall).

(Off course over that period of time there will have been other factors at play too, but several major ones seem connected to the arrival of the supermarket itself.)

Truly bizarre that Tesco should claim this case as the one example nationally of a supermarket having contributed to local regeneration.

I think the point about shop types 'downgrading', so you get clusters of Chinese take-aways replacing ordinary retailers, is a good one. I have seen this happen elsewhere.

Edited to say apologies for having used the word 'interesting' so much in this post. :-$

[Senor Chevalier]

For grabbing groceries after work the Co-op range is quite limited and stock levels seem prone to wild fluctuation so I would definitely make use of a Waitrose (no point whatsoever in another M&S ready meals outlet).

However, the effects on the independent food shops are easy to predict and I just don't think it is worth the gamble with LL.

So with some regret, no.

[Peckhampam]

No

[Dorothy]

No thank you very much. It will definitely send commercial rents even higher to the detriment of the largely independent feel of LL.

[Burbage]

No.

[Loulou]

My choice would be M & S but as with others above would be keen to know what site you are thinking about?

LL

[amydown]

Would love love love Waitrose.

[Bellenden Belle]

Absolutely not, for all the reasons stated.

[sportbilly]

Would definitely welcome a waitrose. It would be a further step in the right direction for LL. I think this is one of the few missing things.

[rbrtdngl]

Yes, a Waitrose would be fantastic. I agree with sportbilly and all the other reasons made in favor.

[BeccaL]

No thank you - agree with others that it would affect the good local shops we have. I have heard that Val's shop by the plough is going to close because of the new sainsburys - no more of this please.

[rbrtdngl]

Currently LL is home to coop, iceland and sainsbury's. I am not really in favor of adding another supermarket, but rather perhaps upgading what we have - maybe getting rid of iceland for m+s or Waitrose (both of which have much higher environmental credentials).