Waitrose or M&S TYPE supermarket - do we want one on LL?

[DulwichFox]

philosophie Wrote:

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> Don't we already have a huge Sainsbury's just down

> the road and plenty of smaller-sized stores

> represented (Londis, Iceland, Co-Op, Sainsbury's

> Local - catering for a wide range of budgets)?

> Let's continue to help ED stand out from the crowd

> and instead encourage more independent business!

> (P.S. this is going to cause a middle class

> shockwave...but I think Waitrose is overrated!)

Totally Agree.

[Miacis]

No way

I have heard that Badger bakery may be forced to close because of the Sainsbury's Local and other shops nearby are starting to feel the pinch. So sad as there are some really good shops up here and i fear they will all go to the wall.

A waitrose would be a disaster.

and let's not even think about the parking....

[edcam]

But does that far down Lordship Lane even really qualify as East Dulwich? It would be interesting to know where such a proposed supermarket would be as there's a big difference between the main bit of Lordship Lane and The Plough end.

>

There's no room at either end I wouldn't imagine.

[coopsy76]

That far down the lane even qualify as East Dulwich? WTF

[silverfox]

Some of us like to think of it as the Dulwich end rather than the Peckham end

[expat]

You can definitely add me to the list of those wholeheartedly in favour of the idea. Preferably in place of Iceland.

I doubt whether Badger Bakery is struggling because of the competition from Sainsbury. The fact that two other independent bakers have opened in the area in the last 18 months (Luca and Blackbird) strikes me as more likely to impact on the poor old Badger.

Mrs Expat

[ImpetuousVrouw]

I went into the Aldi on Old Kent Road for the first time today and thought it was great.

I want an Aldi on Lordship Lane.

[edcam]

silverfox Wrote:

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> Some of us like to think of it as the Dulwich end

> rather than the Peckham end

Bless ;-)

[Love Monkey]

Yes to Waitrose - to replace Iceland or Co'op - or take up the space of the old Barclays that is looking very bleak

[DulwichFox]

Reading through the lines in this thread, people are saying that a Waitrose would bring

more people into the area who would spend more money in the local shops.

People laden with goods from Waitrose are hardly likeley to trudge around local shops.

If the shops are that attractive to these people, why aren't they coming anyway. ?

Do we need anymore people in the area. ? It is busy enough anyway.

Most local people who shop in ED. walk to the shops.

More people from outside the area = more cars.

[longman]

I have to say that I'd be massively in favour of a Waitrose or M&S food. Whilst I also love the range of independent stores we have in the area, I've found the Co-Op has been consistently dreadful since it opened. With poor stock levels and very limited range of fresh produce, it's difficult to see what it's contributing to the area that Somerfield wasn't. And as someone who doesn't own a car and lives nearer to Lordship lane, Sainsbury's isn't as convenient as maybe people think it is. A medium sized, well stocked supermarket nearer this part of the area would be a massive improvement in my eyes.

[RosieH]

I don't own a car and have no problem at all getting to Sainsbury's. If you're not up to walking there, it's very well served by buses, and if you're doing a "big shop" and can't carry everything back on the bus, it's a few quid for a Greyhound Car back. Pretty easy really.

[nicolajaneG]

Yes please, instead of the grotty iceland-just a small branch would be brill for those of us who work full time and sometimes need quick and easy after 5.30. I love the independent shops but coming home after 6.00pm benefit little from them.

[DulwichFox]

Not sure exactly how long Iceland has been there. But quite a while now.

This would suggest it is Successful and Popular.

and therefor deserves a place in E.D.

People that post on this Forum is a very small proportion of the people that live in E.D.

And not every one that posts here thinks Iceland's should go.

[suzilucy]

Yes yes yes please!

[sophiesofa]

I can't see the co-op or iceland closing as they both always have queues so they must be doing alright. I still vote no to a waitrose or m&s because we just don't need another one. If I did have a magic wand i'd replace iceland with a waitrose but really I can live without and I don't want local businesses to suffer just so I can have a melt in the middle waitrose pudding every now and again.

[woodleigh]

A categoric "no" from me for the following reasons.

- Detrimental impact on small independednts: this has been covered extensively in previous threads. The choice of good quality independent shops, particularly food shops, is what gives ED its character and sets it apart from anywhere else I can think of in London. Almost without exception, it is what friends of ours comment on when they come to visit. It is also not true (in all but a few cases) that the local independents are overpriced - it is simply that most of them are selling premium products. A Waitrose or M&S would slowly but surely kill off a lot of these shops. Waitrose in particular, which sets itself apart from other supermarkets by the quality of its fresh meat and fish, would be in direct competition with the likes of Moxons and William Rose. Laziness will take hold, and people will pick up their veg, meat and fish at the supermarket instead of local shops. I absolutely do not buy the argument that a Waitrose would bring more footfall to LL. The average Waitrose shopper gets out of their car, shops for the week, gets back in the car and drives home. They are not going to do their Waitrose shopping and then walk round the corner to Pretty Traditional to pick up a broccoli.

- I can see the case for a Waitrose or M&S in an area where it fills a gap - i.e. where there is something missing. In Earlsfield, for example, residents were ecstatic about the prospect of an M&S Local because there's didly-squat on the high street except estate agents (although they got a Sainsbury's local in the end!). Similarly, in the average provincial town, there is usually no alternative to supermarket shopping. But we are in a completely different position here - there is nothing that a Waitrose or M&S can offer that we can't already get on LL, or (for non-fresh items and household goods) Sainsbury's on DKH.

- The potential catchment area of a Waitrose or M&S on LL worries me. Neither of these stores has a branch anywhere close to ED, and a new store on LL could potentially draw a huge number of shoppers in from surrounding postcodes. The problem is, there is no infrastructure to cope with this influx. Parking would become unbearable (even if the store had a carpark, it would fill quickly during peak times, and spill out onto surrounding streets).

- The statement in the initial post that a Waitrose or M&S would "help the area" puzzles me. It suggests that the area needs help. Help in what way exactly? I can only assume that what was meant here is that a Waitrose or similar would help the area in its continued gentrification and in establishing East Dulwich as a desirable postcode. I certainly have nothing agaist that (and everything to gain so far as house prices are concerned!) but to be honest ED is basically "there" already - only, unlike many other "aspiring" neighbourhoods, it has so far done so while maintaining individuality and character. To lose this would be a great shame, and it won't just be those who currently shop in the local independent shops who will notice the difference.

[Donkey]

Yes to Waitrose. No to M&S.

[Ann]

Woodleigh, that's probably the most sensible post on this thread so far. Very well put.

As you imply, convenience would win the day. Why traipse around Pretty Traditional, William Rose and Moxton's when you can but the same the same in one hit? No doubt those shops have a (justifiably ) loyal client base but we live in time pressured times. Isn't that how supermarkets achieved their success when they were first conceived? I'm thinking 1970's when the first big stores were created ( happy to be corrected on this ).

I'm old enough to remember when Sainsbury's was a very different store. Tiled floors, over the counter service etc in a shop roughly equivalent to Iceland. We would probably all love a store like that now! It moved in the '70's to what was then considered a 'Superstore' near the staion where I lived . My Secondary School overlooked the area; it used to hold a weekly cattle market in what was a proper market town, now a commuter town for London.

Yes, I remember my mum going from shop to shop for various items and she worked part time as well. I'm full time working mother and I suspect that I and plenty others would put convenience before supporting local business. Time has become too much of a precious commodity.

Also I don't think a small sized Waitrose or M and S would neccesarily attract many new shoppers on LL as I suspect most of us who shop their do so for convenience. Would you go out of your way for sucha small shop?

[Pugwash]

Several posts back someone suggested a clothes store - yes I would support that and would even suggest a non food M & S branch. The White Stuff and all the boutique type clothes stores are very expensive, do not cater for those of us who are on the large size and past 40. I like to buy my grandkids clothes, but not the prices quoted by ED stores.

Hubby last year spent ?40 on a shirt at White Stuff - it washes up creased and is a bugger to iron, by the 3rd wash it looked cheap.

A Farmers Market would be a good idea - they could hold a temporary one on the Dulwich Hospital Site once a week.

Many older people moan to me that supermarkets do not cater for singles with small appetite or income. You try getting a small bone in pork chop for a pensioner who spends ?25 pw on food, or who only wants 3 eggs a week.

There is nothing wrong with Iceland - you do not have to by the cheapest item on sale, also alot of their stuff is cheaper than Sainsbury's.

Val's store was opened all the Christmas and New Year Holidays - ideal when we ran out of bread. The only time I have seen Sainsbury's at the Plough busy, was the weekend in Nov/Dec when we had the heavy snowfall and traffic could not get down LL. Badgers bakery is good - sometimes there are so many people there you need to wait outside. What would the bus crews do for their sandwiches, hot pies and soups if they closed. I rarely use Sainsbury's Local and tend to use Vals for veg and fruit and always their polish bread.

My parents live in a Sussex Village which housed a large caravan site, shops had an early closing day and also closed at 5.30. The local restaurants closed at the same time except one which stayed open until 7 pm. All the shop keepers moaned about low profits, and yet the holiday camp site held about 2 thousand people at least half of them would shop in the village. My parents were surprised that restaurants in ED were opened late, that shops opened Sundays, and we had no early closing days. To me it made sense that if you were a coastal town with a large number of self catering holiday makers, it would make sense to open until around 7 - 8 pm and restaurants opened later at least in the holiday season.

However, that last 2- 3 years have seen the one late restaurant opening now till 10 pm all year round, the 3 supermarkets ( Budgens, Co Op and the Sommerfields now turned Co Op)open 7 days a week - late night opening is 8 pm. The ordinary gift/clothing/butchers/bakers/general stores still closing at 5.30 regardless of season. The next nearest village with shops is 5 - 8 miles away.

I think the independents do not want to open later as they will have to pay staff - Nisha and her husband and another relative work all hours of the day and evening to keep their business going. The other independents in LL are obviously not able or willing to pay staff to stay open until 8 pm at night.

With the talk that local councils will be making larges numbers of staff redundant ( 1000, Lewisham, 2000 Lambeth and 500 Southwark) also Kings are privatising many of their services, local people will not have the income after March to splash out in LL so businesses will suffer anyway.

[dukesdenver]

Much as I love M&S and Waitrose I don't think we need another supermarket on LL either but it would be great if the Co-op could pull its socks up. Write to them here.

[Louisa]

I think it's about time Harrods branched out. I'm sure theyre well aware of the gentrification that has occured around here, and of the interest shown in the area by the likes of Zara, Mango, and even high end shopping boutiques like Prada, Gucci and Versace! Dont worry my friends, it wont be long until they set up shop, I hear they are so keen to open up around here they might even take over the police station and go into partnership with Westfield and build the biggest shopping centre in the world! :-S

Get real people! lol

Louisa.

[uppereastsider]

Don't mind either, as long as it replaces the Iceland - good location and parking at the back of the store.

[lidsey]

yes please

[lidsey]

yes pllease