Waitrose or M&S TYPE supermarket - do we want one on LL?

[david_carnell]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> Apart from meat and fish, what is it people need

> to buy late at night that can be sourced from the

> Turkish shop or Nisha?s (to pick two examples)

The Turkish place is excellent for a lot of things and I use it often. But aside from meat and fish, it's cheese selection is poor (unless you have a thing for feta - I don't) and their fresh fruit and veg often leaves a little to be desired. Not bad but not nearly on a par with, for eg., Pretty Traditional on NCR.

And whilst they occassionally have a decent white loaf, the EDD, Blackbird and even Lucas have a better bread selection. The deli on a Thurs is the only one to open late I believe.

[Jeremy]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> Apart from meat and fish, what is it people need

> to buy late at night that can be sourced from the

> Turkish shop or Nisha?s (to pick two examples)

As far as the Waitrose/M&S argument goes, we're talking ready-meals, pre-prepared salad/veg, stuff like that. And melting-middle chocolate puddings. But both Sainsbury's branches cater fairly well to that market already.

Also, I think a lot of people just don't realise that the Turkish shop is actually pretty good.

[Shaggy]

I vote yes. If there was an M&S or a Waitrose nearby I'd still use the local non-chain stores, but wouldn't use Ocado and Lordship Lane Co-op. It's such a shame the Co-ops are so badly run. They could be great stores.

And if some of the food stores could stay open later some nights I'd use them for sure. I'd love to come home on a week night with a loaf from the EDD.

[Selma]

Yes please, the more the merrier! I would rather have a shop (even if I would not use it) than an empty premises.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Yep, I see why people would go for those things but do I think enough people would do it to warrant local shops staying open?

Chicken and egg I guess but if I was a gambling man (or someone with a small shop on LL selling good cheese or bread ) I?m thinking an extra 3 hours wages and bills and time for the x number of punters might not be worth it

[Shaggy]

It probably is chicken and egg, I think it's worth a shot though on maybe one night a week. But the shops would have to co-ordinate and make an event out of it. Though if they did it in the middle of winter I doubt it would work. I think a couple of late night shopping festivals once the clocks change would be a worthwhile experiment.

[silverfox]

Unless the Co-op or Iceland closed down, the only place big enough on LL to accommodate an M&S Simply Food or a Waitrose smaller-format convenience store would be the police station.

Further afield Merton Timber would be a good site if they sold up or there's the old Dulwich hospital site and both these sites could allow for a full supermarket or large M&S foodhall.

The question I suppose we have to ask ourselves is what's in it for these prestigious outlets to come to ED? Their bean counters will have done their maths. If Waitrose can tell from it's Ocado deliveries that a substantial number of ED/Dulwich/WD residents already order their products then it might be viable.

ED will already have been profiled, as it is now and with projections for future demographics with extensions to rail networks, baby boom families settling into middle age, etc. M&S and Waitrose aren't going to spend possibly ?1 million plus to set up here on the off chance that they make take some business away from existing supermarkets and local retailers unless there is a realistic prospect of making a substantial return.

[ed_pete]

Just a quick point of clarification silverfox, Ocado have a partnership with Waitrose but are not owned by them and therefore would not have any information on who bought what where.

[KidKruger]

Outlay for Waitrose would be well over ?1m (purchase/ lease + fitting store and eqpt) and they would be looking for a return over a calculated period, i'd guess that ED is very 'viable', even in today's economic climate.

[silverfox]

Just going back to James's original post for a minute about having an anchor type store coming into the area which presumably would attract other big names.

I once met a former personal secretary to Sir Richard Greenbury, former M&s chairman, who negotiated M&S's move into a big shopping development in Leeds (I think it was). The City council paid M&S ?20m to move in. Money regarded as good value in terms of the city's development plans given the employment it brought and the other stores that followed.

My point? Is James proposing a development plan for East Dulwich? If not, is it not more a case of whether a Waitrose/M&s can be induced to come here rather than whether we want them or not?

[Mick Mac]

I have posted this before but I spoke to a local surveyor about 18 months ago and he was engaged by Waitrose then to find a suitable plot for a shop in ED.

However there was no suitable plot of the size Waitrose wanted, so it ended there.

I have not read the 8 page thread - but has James Barber any basis for suggesting they might now be interested in coming, because that was not what they concluded last time they looked.

[huncamunca]

So victims, how much grocery choice do you need to make you happy?

[Applespider]

Mick Mac - 18 months ago, Waitrose didn't have their 'convenience store' model to implement in smaller sites. Now they can fit into a smaller footprint. I am curious about how much of their ingredients end up in the convenience model over ready meals since I prefer to cook myself.

[arworld]

YES please - i would love Waitrose!

[dully]

LL has a pretty impressive set of shops that do not need the diversion from their income. They are already up against a massive sainsburys.

[bodsier]

James although you mentioned waitrose and M&S, I note you also mentioned ;The Peoples Supermarket'. I think maybe that was missed judging by most of the replies. I really like the idea of that. I lived in Kennington many years ago, and they had a similar shop called NO'BODIES BUSINESS. I think it is still running. There are many people in the area who make wonderful produce and I think it would be wo0nderful for the community if we introduced our own shop with our own produce and our own efforts. it worked really well and I would definately be interested in volunteering my services. I really don't want another generic supermarmarket on Lordship lane, but something that really served the community especially in the difficult times ahead would be spot on. Anyway I think any empty shops are more likely to be another tesco express......they are popping up everywhere..... I do not welcome them either.

[Blondie]

Yes please and I'm not fussy

[Keef]

Go to Iceland then ;-)

[richfish]

I would find Waitrose a very attractice proposition for LL. They tend to be well-managed, have a great commitment to staff training and have well-stocked stores. You couldn't say that about Somerfield, Co-op etc. I really like their ethical commitment to employing disabled people including people with learning disabilities who are excluded from much of the labour market. However we don't need another supermarket on LL so for me it would need to replace the absolutely useless Co-op.

Whilst we are in centralist neighbourhood planning mode (is this the new Localism Bill in action?) can I also request that we have no more estate agents please. Please. No more.

[James Barber]

Since becoming a councillor in 2006 many people have asked, especially on this forum, for a Waitrose or M&S type supermarket.

This thread was meant to test that proposition. I had a site in mind on Lordship Lane that the council owns.

It seems clear from respondents that in the round strong opinions held with majority having anti feeling for any more supermarkets.

That some might favour a true cooperative like the The People's Supermarket.

That if any changes are to be made either get the existing Coop to improve or replace it but no more supermarkets.

Useful thoughts about why can't the independents work together on customer service and home deliveries.

I will take these thought to the next SSBA meet I attend.

Many thanks for everyone's support in giving such clear feedback.

[Dickensman]

The main reason LL is a success it's because Sainsbury's supermarket is a bus ride away.

If the general consensus is for a big fat supermarket moving in, then LL individual traders would move out as they would not be able to compete.

So beware what you wish for...............

[James Barber]

No one is proposing a 'big fat supermarket'

The site I had thoguht of would be similar in size to the current Coop.

BUT its clear that despite many individual posts in the past requesting such another supermarket that when actually asked posters are strongly against.

[silverfox]

I'm not sure you can deduce any such thing from this thread.

There is a vocal element that have given their 'no' opinion. However this thread has had 6,318 views. Even allowing for deduplication of people viewing the thread several times there must be a silent majority of more than 1,000 people who have yet to make their views known.

You would need an EDF poll similar to the election poll to get a truer sense of people's views.

[aprayerforowenmeany]

James. The results of a question posted in this forum can hardly be hardly be held up as representative of the wider community. I see in the news this morning that Waitrose plan to open 37 more stores this year. Do you know more than you are letting on? There are thousands of people in the area who probably aren't even aware of this forums existence. What about their opinion?

[Jeremy]

Throw out Co-op. Get Waitrose in instead.

If only it was that easy.