8 June

[uncleglen]

It will be interesting to see the voting by age group figures next week- Jezza's big bribe re student fees and school lunches must have contributed to the result.

This morning Arlene Foster said that when she speaks to Theresa may on Tuesday they will do whatever is best for everyone in the UK, and the people of Northern Ireland. She also said the word stability a couple of times

Unfortunately I couldn't bring myself to watch the chancer Corbyn on Andrew Marr though

[malumbu]

Shame you didn't see JC on Andrew Marr. His body language was excellent, he spoke well, and from my perspective has come on leaps and bounds.

I've close dealings with government. Cameron was a lightweight - and talk about being a chancer, what a silly chance he took in the first place which led to the mess we are in now.

Then anther chancer TM. Definitely showed Cameron as the lightweight he was. When she announced the election it was an 'ohhh', then and 'ahh' from me, 'this makes perfect sense' (from her not from me). Which was the way I saw it until perhaps 3 weeks ago. But I've never seen anything like this in my life, and I expect that you haven't too.

Wasn't and still am not JC's biggest fan, but you have to admire him UG? Try taking a step back and seeing a more objective view UG, and save yourself from ridicule.

The motropolitan elite may not be representative of the rest of the country, but it wasn't just us and the young that led to the big swing in the capital.

And after us oldies had screwed up the future of the young last Jume, its brilliant how they have fought back.

[JoeLeg]

Arlene Foster will do what is in the best interests of

1. Arlene Foster

2. The DUP's bigoted,ignorant and divisive agenda

3. Their view of how Northern Itelnd should be

4. Maybe, just maybe, the rest of the U.K.

In that order. Don't be fooled. In the current climate she's just as much of a chancer of Corbyn. I'm amazed a cynic like yourself doesn't see that UG.

[malumbu]

1-4 of the Telegraph article seems to be very much old Tory, with the likes of Nigel Lawson

But 5 - 7 of the DUP 'facts' more progressive.

Hmmm, interesting

More interesting is the comments on the Telegraph website - it's like a more reasoned (but just as extreme) Daily Mail. I particularly enjoyed the one that thanked (genuinely) the PM. It's democracy damn you, if the young and so many others liked what JC said (irrespetive of pages of vile reporting from the right wing press) then good on them.

I don't see the Mail or Telegraph having an article that many voteed to leave the EU due to misleading claims. But I am supposed to respect the will of the people too.

Lordship 516 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/09/7-thing

> s-didnt-know-dup/

>

[Lordship 516]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It will be interesting to see the voting by age

> group figures next week- Jezza's big bribe re

> student fees and school lunches must have

> contributed to the result.

> This morning Arlene Foster said that when she

> speaks to Theresa may on Tuesday they will do

> whatever is best for everyone in the UK, and the

> people of Northern Ireland. She also said the word

> stability a couple of times

> Unfortunately I couldn't bring myself to watch the

> chancer Corbyn on Andrew Marr though

Not a surprise UG - Arlene Foster is leveraging the only advantage they have been able to gain for a long time.

The DUP care only about their own narrow interests & will try to modify the NI shared government, prosecution of military murders, freedom from prosecution over the 'Cash for Ash' RHI debacle, no Irish language in secondary schools plus, plus, plus.

The only stability these people understand is the domination of their narrow-minded views over everyone in NI

UG, I feel you would be a great fit with these 17th century regressives so no need to be objective in your viewing.

No need to listen to alternative views as you know your are always right!

NI is NOT British

They belong to the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

- they are Irish people who are UK-landers or Nirelanders, never British.

The Britain I know & am very comfortable with does not exist in NI.

[rendelharris]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It will be interesting to see the voting by age

> group figures next week- Jezza's big bribe re

> student fees and school lunches must have

> contributed to the result.

Fun to see the right being poor losers when they haven't even technically lost. What a worldview when trying to make access to education and decent nutrition available for the less well off absolutely must be a bribe, not a principle worth fighting for. One almost feels they're more to be pitied than censured, it must be horrid to have to inhabit that bile-filled bitter mindset all the time.

[Seabag]

red devil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> keano77 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I suspect my mate Jean-Claude's idea of a hard

> > Brexit would be a padlock on the EU wine

> cellar.

>

> I see him as a Chateauneuf du Pape drinker.

>

> From ancient Roman origins, this wine has passed

> through the lips of Popes and the Bourgeoisie, and

> now onto the untreated oak tables of East Dulwich.

> Based on terroir et perforce, the minimum 4 year

> old vines are harvested lovingly by hand only.

> Upon drinking, the flavours of fresh red and black

> cherries, strawberry, kirsch, black pepper, black

> raspberry, spice, earth and garrigue, burst onto

> one's palette.

> Lush, lusty and luscious!

>

> 12.5% Volume; 750ML.

> Comes in a natural bouteille en verre vert

> measuring 300mm high; 106mm diameter at the base;

> 30mm diameter at the neck.

> Complete with natural cork stopper, a rare find

> indeed!...

Blimey RD, have you been on the vino.

Where on earth did this 'purple patch' sprout from ?

WOW!

😀🤚

[rendelharris]

Lordship 516 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> NI is NOT British

> They belong to the United Kingdom of Great Britain

> & Northern Ireland

> - they are Irish people who are UK-landers or

> Nirelanders, never British.

It's a bit more complex than that - under the Good Friday agreement, those born in Northern Ireland can choose British citizenship, Irish citizenship or dual citizenship. There's no such official title as "United Kingdom and Northern Ireland citizenship" or "Northern Irish citizenship," if you choose to identify as a citizen of the UK & NI then you're officially British. No judgement intended on any side of the line, but that's how it's defined.

[rendelharris]

Robert Harris (no relation, sadly) in today's Sunday Times sums things up rather well, I think:

"How did a stable, prosperous parliamentary democracy, granted a unique set of favourable opt-outs with the largest trading bloc in the world, including on the single currency and travel, throw it all up in the air on the basis of a 52-48 yes/no vote in a referendum ? a margin not normally wide enough to change the constitution of the average golf club?

"What arrogance of intellect, what frivolousness of character, led our leaders to take such a gamble? Why did the Tory party rush to choose such an ill-equipped successor? Why did that successor, a ?remainer? herself, not seek to bind up our divided nation rather than opt for the harshest of all Brexit positions? Why did she call an election after, rather than before, triggering article 50 and so deny the country a final say on its destiny?"

[keano77]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Lordship 516 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > NI is NOT British

> > They belong to the United Kingdom of Great

> Britain

> > & Northern Ireland

> > - they are Irish people who are UK-landers or

> > Nirelanders, never British.

>

> It's a bit more complex than that - under the Good

> Friday agreement, those born in Northern Ireland

> can choose British citizenship, Irish citizenship

> or dual citizenship. There's no such official

> title as "United Kingdom and Northern Ireland

> citizenship" or "Northern Irish citizenship," if

> you choose to identify as a citizen of the UK & NI

> then you're officially British. No judgement

> intended on any side of the line, but that's how

> it's defined.

Correction Rendel

Northern Ireland is not part of Britain. It is part of the United Kingdom. As such, technically, NI citizens cannot be British although geographically they reside within the British Isles

[rendelharris]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Correction Rendel

>

> Northern Ireland is not part of Britain. It is

> part of the United Kingdom. As such, technically,

> NI citizens cannot be British although

> geographically they reside within the British

> Isles

Correction declined. Northern Ireland government website:

Nationality and citizenship

Northern Ireland is part of the UK. However, under the Belfast Agreement(external link opens in a new window / tab), also known as the Good Friday Agreement, people born in Northern Ireland can choose to be British citizens, Irish citizens or both. If they choose to be both British and Irish citizens, this means they have a dual citizenship.

(https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/about-northern-ireland)

There's no "technically" about it - Northern Ireland residents who opt for British citizenship are officially defined by the UK and NI governments as British citizens.

A territory does not have to have a geographically located on the island of Great Britain in order for its citizens to be British: the residents of the Falkland Islands, for example, have British citizenship.

[keano77]

"...can choose to be British citizens, Irish citizens or both...

Many of our former colonies can also apply for British Citizenship

Look at your passport, United Kingdom of Great Britain (ie, England, Wales and Scotland) and Northern Ireland

[Loz]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Correction Rendel

>

> Northern Ireland is not part of Britain. It is

> part of the United Kingdom. As such, technically,

> NI citizens cannot be British although

> geographically they reside within the British

> Isles

On that basis, neither can people on the Isle of Wight, Hebrides, Orkney Islands and Shetland Islands.

[Alan Medic]

It's good to see Lego Card swapsies is giving this thread a run for its money.

[rendelharris]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "...can choose to be British citizens, Irish

> citizens or both...

>

> Many of our former colonies can also apply for

> British Citizenship

>

> Look at your passport, United Kingdom of Great

> Britain (ie, England, Wales and Scotland) and

> Northern Ireland

I can't go much further with this squire, holders of UK & NI passports are British citizens, as evinced by the NI government website I've quoted above, I can't really give you any more evidence than what the actual government says about it!

[Lordship 516]

There is a level of confusion about all of this ...

see https://www.gov.uk/browse/abroad/passports

It mentions 'Apply online for a UK passport'

Later they mention 'Overseas British passport applications'

British & UK are interchangable as descriptive terms but I think the term UK will be the legal status...

[Lordship 516]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> keano77 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Correction Rendel

> >

> > Northern Ireland is not part of Britain. It is

> > part of the United Kingdom. As such,

> technically,

> > NI citizens cannot be British although

> > geographically they reside within the British

> > Isles

>

> On that basis, neither can people on the Isle of

> Wight, Hebrides, Orkney Islands and Shetland

> Islands.

All of these islands are part of Great Britain - Northern Ireland is not - see the Ireland Act 1949.

[keano77]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> keano77 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Correction Rendel

> >

> > Northern Ireland is not part of Britain. It is

> > part of the United Kingdom. As such,

> technically,

> > NI citizens cannot be British although

> > geographically they reside within the British

> > Isles

>

> On that basis, neither can people on the Isle of

> Wight, Hebrides, Orkney Islands and Shetland

> Islands.

Constitutionally I think they fall under England and Scotland

[Alan Medic]

Regardless of what Northern Ireland is or isn't, I would suggest that the government would be happy to be rid of it if it could. Except in circumstances such as now.

[Lordship 516]

keano77 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Loz Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > keano77 Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> >

> > > Correction Rendel

> > >

> > > Northern Ireland is not part of Britain. It

> is

> > > part of the United Kingdom. As such,

> > technically,

> > > NI citizens cannot be British although

> > > geographically they reside within the British

> > > Isles

> >

> > On that basis, neither can people on the Isle

> of

> > Wight, Hebrides, Orkney Islands and Shetland

> > Islands.

>

> Constitutionally I think they fall under England

> and Scotland

Isle of Wight - England

Hebrides, Orkney Islands and Shetland Islands - Scotland

All Great Britain

[rendelharris]

It's a simple fact, all persons born in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland are British citizens. That is the official UK government term. There is no official designation of "UK citizen"! This is the UK government's official website: https://www.gov.uk/browse/citizenship/citizenship - note the multiple references to "British citizenship"!

[Loz]

Lets put this another way: what is the collective name for people from "Great Britain and Northern Ireland", then?

Answer: British.

And, as of 21 May 2002, you can add people from the following places as 'British':

Anguilla

Bermuda

British Antarctic Territory

British Indian Ocean Territory

British Virgin Islands

Cayman Islands

Falkland Islands

Gibraltar

Montserrat

Pitcairn Islands

Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha

South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands

Turks and Caicos Islands

https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-nationality/british-citizenship

https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-nationality/british-overseas-territories-citizen

[Lordship 516]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Lets put this another way: what is the collective

> name for people from "Great Britain and Northern

> Ireland", then?

>

> Answer: British.

>

> And, as of 21 May 2002, you can add people from

> the following places as 'British':

>

> Anguilla

> Bermuda

> British Antarctic Territory

> British Indian Ocean Territory

> British Virgin Islands

> Cayman Islands

> Falkland Islands

> Gibraltar

> Montserrat

> Pitcairn Islands

> Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha

> South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands

> Turks and Caicos Islands

>

> https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-nationality/br

> itish-citizenship

>

> https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-nationality/br

> itish-overseas-territories-citizen

This is a descriptive term - The legal entity is the United Kingdom

The descriptive term is Republic of Ireland - The legal term is Ireland

[red devil]

Can we not just all be called Clangers, as a nation we seem to be good at dropping them...

[rendelharris]

Lordship 516 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This is a descriptive term - The legal entity is

> the United Kingdom

>

> The descriptive term is Republic of Ireland - The

> legal term is Ireland

Lordship, I respect and enjoy your posts but you're really barking up the wrong tree here. We live in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. All citizens of that entity are British, as is made perfectly clear on both the UK Gov and NI Gov websites linked above.

However let the record show that if Clangers passports as suggested above by RD are available, I want one!