8 June

[JohnL]

It's not going to end well

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/04/merkel-sees-may-erdogan-downing-street-le-pen-no-10-brexit

It;s not a parent relationship I agree - it's an adult relationship that is in my view symbiotic. I think leaving the EU is a huge loss - others disagree and think we gain - I don't think that's going to change

[vito]

???? Wrote:

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> vito Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > HEY ???? I GOT TO TELL YOU A STORY

> >

> > My Mum is the sweetest person in the world.

> well

> > educated, polite and peaceful..

> > Only once she was impolite towards me or anyone

> as

> > far as I remember..

> >

> > During my teenage years, as for many of us, I

> felt

> > the urge and need to be a rebel:)

> > I was reading J Kerouak and more at that time so

> I

> > decided I had to be free and do what I wanted

> > taking my decisions..

> >

> > The day I decided to tell Mum i wanted to leave

> > the house, i was provoking her looking for an

> > argument but she is still sooo sweet and nice

> that

> > there was no confrontation..so i pushed her and

> > still no confrontation...So I told her!! I told

> > her I wanted to have control over my life and

> > decisions, take my staff and go my on way!!

> > She still was very very understanding and said

> i

> > respect your decision, i don t like it but it

> is

> > true she said; It s time for you to make

> decisions

> > and go your own way if You feel this way...

> > So it will be i said!!...but than I added, i

> still

> > gonna come Home for Breakfast lunch and dinner,

> > occasionally sleep over..and once a week to use

> > the washing machine!

> > IT was the only time I heard The F... You word

> > coming out of her mouth..:))))

> > It still very much resounds in my head after 30

> > yrs..

> > Do you also think she was a very very bad

> Mum?:)

> > :) :);)

> > ..I thought so..:))))

>

>

> Yup - tell that to Greece! The EU isn't our mum

> and we pay a lot of rent. Let's stick to some

> grown up analysis maybe?

Than You better behave as a grown up if You want to be treated as such. UK history in Europe says it long. We stay - we go- we stay - we go- no this - no that - no that - no this

Rather You stay or you go....You cannot go and have the same advantages..

You paid rent as much as everybody else. You got advantages as much as everybody else (see the amount of money ares like wales, scotland or ireland got from EU in the last decade+)

It s a club. If you want the advantages You got to pay Your rent. If you do not want them You free to go

There is no, in a grown up world, such a thing as retaining the advantages without paying rent..

[vito]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/03/theresa-may-cut-and-run-europe-illegal-trade-deal-another-galaxy

[Seabag]

titch juicy Wrote:

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> It feels like it's a case of the EU acting with

> some class and May acting like a spoilt child who

> doesn't want to share with other children, but

> starts crying when the other children take their

> toys away.

I don't like May, but I like this kind of analogy even less

Leavers use this language regularly, I'm not sure whether you are one or not

And actually, I don't give a toss

[Seabag]

Lordship 516 Wrote:

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> rahrahrah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > So May is now accusing 'Brussels' of

> interfering

> > in the election. Incendiary, counterproductive

> and

> > far from being in the national interest. But

> then

> > the Tories seem happy to destroy relations with

> > Europe in exchange of narrow party interests.

>

> I find the government line quite mad & mayopic.

> For all their chat about planning & doing deals

> and how europe will hurt more than the UK, Europe

> has been working quietly to replace UK import

> volumes with export to alternative markets - they

> very obviously have a co-ordinated plan. Ireland

> has just signed a deal with China for premium

> pork, beef, crab & racehorse exports, signed a

> deal for exporting premium grass-fed beef to the

> USA etc; Germany has cleared the way for more car

> exports to China - a moderate increase to China

> will absorb all of their exports currently made to

> the UK; Spain has been all over South America

> recently doing deals & France is very active in

> Africa. Eurpoe is already preparing substitute

> markets for a hard Brexit while the Mayniacs are

> arguing the toss about the square root of fcuk

> all. I'm pretty sure that switched on companies

> in the UK are doing likewise but the government

> appears to be blinded by the glaring headlights of

> their own making.

>

> For every marketing/sales person the UK can put on

> the ground, the EU can send 9 or 10 - critical

> mass is what matters & they will make more

> headway, faster.

I've started to set up shop in Copenhagen, by securing a distribution space from Sweden. We have customers there already. It's just as easy to fly to Denmark as it is to get to Manchester.

We're off to Ruplic of Ireland in June to do the same, and I'm staring distribution in Paris in Jan 2018 with a U.K partner who's aquired warehousing on the outskirts. All but most of our produce will be from within the E.U

I've also increased our purchasing from Spain, as we intend on bypassing our U.K set up completely in the future.

And my business is small fry in the bigger picture. I see our U.K operation as being a shop window/Trojan horse for the bigger business we'll do outside of here.

But I'm quite saddened by the reality of that.

[titch juicy]

Seabag Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> titch juicy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > It feels like it's a case of the EU acting with

> > some class and May acting like a spoilt child

> who

> > doesn't want to share with other children, but

> > starts crying when the other children take

> their

> > toys away.

>

>

> I don't like May, but I like this kind of analogy

> even less

>

> Leavers use this language regularly, I'm not sure

> whether you are one or not

>

> And actually, I don't give a toss

I'm a remainer.

I'm only calling it as it feels to me. Can you explain why you don't like it?

[steveo]

I'm intrigued Seabag. What is it, meth?

[JohnL]

It is getting a bit WWE.

'.. recent comments from Martin Selmayr, the European commission president?s chief of staff, who has claimed the commission will only allow 30 minutes of thinking time a week for Brexit issues, Schinas added: ?This week it?s up.? '

[jaywalker]

It is a disaster. We are leaving and it is going to be with nothing to fall back upon (apart from a fantasy of our special relationship with Trump, and stupid deals with terrible regimes far away).

My fear is that those whose ressentiment leads them to vote for the 'strong' May will be so disenchanted by the reality of what will happen next that they will seek out 'truly' strong leaders. It has happened before.

[Seabag]

steveo Wrote:

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> I'm intrigued Seabag. What is it, meth?

No, but great thought.

[????]

it is utterly beyond me how Corbyn can go on - I don't think there's any particular love for May but people are just looking at the choice...and making the right decision in my view,

[DulwichFox]

Corbyn is a stubborn old Buffoon and unlikely to back down, listen to anyone and has no chance

of leading the Labour Party to victory. and like Millwall.. No one likes him and he don't care.

Foxy

[JohnL]

Not only will he go on now - but if he loses the election by a landslide - he'll still go on.

[Otta]

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/05/how-to-save-the-labour-party/

This

[red devil]

Quids, 'fess up, you wrote that didn't you?! :)

Good article btw...

[nxjen]

So as the GE gets closer, the dilemma becomes greater for me to know who to vote for as a labour supporter who does not want to see Corbyn as Prime Minister. No way do I vote Tory. I did initially consider voting LibDem but as time goes on both party and Farron become less inspiring. The only thing that makes them attractive is their pledge to reverse Brexit but they'll have to get a large majority (unlikely) to reverse the legislation passed a few months ago.

Which brings me back to Labour. We have in Helen Hayes a very capable MP who in a short time has proved her worth. By all accounts Labour don't stand a chance of forming the next government but in the aftermath Labour will need good people like Helen in Parliament. This is not a marginal constituency so it's unlikely voting for Helen will tip the result in Corbyn's favour but it may form a basis for the GE in 2022.

I shall also be joining the Labour Party so I can influence the next Labour leadership contest.

[Loz]

Honestly, nxjen, if you are anti-Brexit I just can't see how you could vote for anyone other than the Lib-Dems.

I agree Farron is not inspiring at all but, frankly, none of the leaders are, are they? But a good showing for the Lib Dems would send the message that there is still a lot of support for staying in Europe. A vote for Labour doesn't send that message.

And a vote for Labour is, sadly, a vote for Corbyn and increases his chances of staying Labour leader after the election.

[Louisa]

A vote for Labour is a vote for your local MP, it doesn't have to be an endorsement of Corbyn. He will likely remain leader regardless of the drubbing he is likely to receive. A vote for the Lib Dems sends no message to anyone about Brexit, even if they were to return to the heady heights of 21% in the popular vote, their influence is minimal.

Louisa.

[nxjen]

I know what you're saying Loz and as I said earlier I'm finding it a dilemma. The Lib Dems might pick up some seats in Remain areas but not in those areas that voted Brexit. Even with an alliance with the SNPs, they will not be in a position to be able to reverse the legislation.

[Loz]

It's not a matter of seats; it's a matter of vote share. If the Lib Dem vote share jumps - especially in London -

that is the message. Look at the hassle UKIP increasing its vote share to 14-15% caused. Imagine if the Lib Dems started polling 20% in urban areas.

And anyway, never say never ... look at what happened in the Richmond by-election - a 23,000 majority overturned. It can be done.

[nxjen]

It's the general election, it is the number of seats. 48% of us have already sent a message. I want to do more with my vote than to send a message that won't be heeded in the slightest, I prefer to use it to elect an MP I can respect.

[Loz]

But you are in a constituency that will, barring the Tory getting a 30%+ swing, re-elect your MP.

So, as far as seats go, your vote is pretty much useless.

[nxjen]

Except unlikely though it may be both Tories and LibDems could make inroads in that majority and nothing can be taken for granted these days. The more you're trying to persuade me otherwise, the more stubborn I'm becoming!

[Loz]

nxjen Wrote:

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> Except unlikely though it may be both Tories and

> LibDems could make inroads in that majority and

> nothing can be taken for granted these days. The

> more you're trying to persuade me otherwise, the

> more stubborn I'm becoming!

Ha, ha!

I suspect that if you are prepared to hold your nose in June and vote for Corbyn's Labour, you'll always vote Labour, no matter how good the arguments against it are.

[Trinnydad]

JohnL Wrote:

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> It's not going to end well

>

And will get worse as the Tories will push through the revised constituency boundaries when/if they get back in. It will be more of an uphilll struggle then.