8 June

[Earl Aelfheah]

Why are there two threads on the election. Perhaps Admin could lock one of them.

[DaveR]

On the other thread, Corbyn's going to win

[Jeremy]

Seabag Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> In fact, I'm suspicious when politicians express

> thier 'faith', it conveys a level of willful

> blindness, of which I'm not good at.

Couldn't agree more. But credible alternatives seem thin on the ground.

[JohnL]

And May has now paid tribute to the memory of the great Ed Milliband whilst eating a chip

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/02/theresa-may-awkwardly-eating-chips-could-be-2017s-bacon-sandwich

[Jeremy]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> And May has now paid tribute to the memory of the

> great Ed Milliband whilst eating a chip

Lol... still, not as glorious as Peter Mandelson going into a chippy, pointing at the mushy peas, and saying "can I have some of that guacamole"?

Even if it's not true, I still love the story.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I love the Mandelson story. Serioulsy though, anyone photographed eating can be made to look stupid. It was ridiculous when they attacked Ed Milliband for it and it's just as daft now it's May.

[JohnL]

and in the days before Peckham was a hipster hangout, Jacqui Smith, then home secretary, visited for a high profile kebab in Katie's.

[Seabag]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Seabag Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > In fact, I'm suspicious when politicians

> express

> > thier 'faith', it conveys a level of willful

> > blindness, of which I'm not good at.

>

> Couldn't agree more. But credible alternatives

> seem thin on the ground.

I hear Tony Blair is to make a reappearance

God sh!t, it is getting desperate

Is Dirty Den still alive?

[DulwichFox]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> and in the days before Peckham was a hipster

> hangout, Jacqui Smith, then home secretary,

> visited for a high profile kebab in Katie's.

I did not know the Kebab shop sold Porn Videos.. lol

Foxy

[jaywalker]

the more I watch this the more I am submitting a blank ballot paper.

Tim Fallon : what the fuck? Sure, I vote Lib-Dem for an evangelical? What? And, more police? WHAT?

T May: Bloody good (as it were!?!)

The rest: nowhere or just confused.

A blank return would at least satisfy the Kantian principle that if we all did it ...

[Loz]

There's always the Monster Raving Loony Party, jaywalker.

Though it's a little hard these days to distinguish them from the rest.

[JohnL]

Well Sky News went live to Guy Verhofstadt this morning expecting some May goading but he just gave an update of the process (stages of the talks and the conditions needed for talks to progress) - and said he will continue to give updates as the talks progress. Edit: and yes it seems he will give a running commentary (maybe that's his little May goad)

Why can't May do this with Parliament - why with her does everything need to be secret and so controlled.

All the media information on the talks will come from the EU side it seems.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Because she knows that our hand is empty and that people aren't going to like the deal we get

[red devil]

In the very unlikely event that there will be a deal that satisfies both sides, it's therefore in both parties interests to make the other side look like the 'bad guy'. You don't need to imagine the Daily Heils headline if we come out with a bad deal, it'll all be the EU's fault. Politics by numbers...

[titch juicy]

It feels like it's a case of the EU acting with some class and May acting like a spoilt child who doesn't want to share with other children, but starts crying when the other children take their toys away.

[pato]

Do You Think if PM went into brexit talks without an election would have been any different than after an election?? Do You think they care if PM was put there by conservative party, by the people or the Queen Herself? will it make any difference for them in Bruxelles??

Is there really a deal to be made??

and if....and only IF, there was a deal to be made do You think PM and her attitude are the best for those negotiations?? and what s the plan anyway....can UK give mandate on an empty paper??

I don t really think there is any deal to be made. It s a divorce it will go by the rules. Of course UK cannot ask to have a better position in europe after Brexit as it makes no sense really...

Is there any sense in all of it or we are taken to a cliff just to watch a cat fight for power that will cost us a couple of decades of credit crunch..?

I don t know....in the end of the day UK could already do pretty much whatever They wanted while still being in europe...not only for the euro itself but also migrants for instance...I remember Cameron did struck a deal regarding migrants just before referendum..

Once divorced also conservative keep saying they are best to build a stronger UK in the future but it is really worth to make Business with South Arabia with all they do to women, minorities etc or with Duterte in the Philippines the self proclaimed New Hitler? Is it economically and morally better than do business with europe especially in these so uncertain times we living..?

Also can we take a whole country to such a cliff for a 2% difference in a referendum where nobody could know consequences of it and where lots of people voted in protest for anything (nhs gouvernment school migrants refugees u name it..) but europe? In the end country was divided 50/50 let s say on the referendum...so 50% didn t want brexit at all. Are we sure the whole 50% that wanted brexit wanted THIS Brexit??? as if only 10/20% of them did not want a Tory Brexit than we could easily say that we are doing precisely what 70% of UK doesn t want rather than the opposite..

I don t know but it seems a complete no sense made not for best interest of the country but for power only in spite of the country..

talking about power one last question: are we sure UK will come out stronger or You just making Germany france etc stronger? I m sure in this sense ChelseaFC and their supporters will be really happy if now Tottenham decides to leave the Premier league..

Anyway wishing everybody all the best. From my side I really wish You that the voice of UK people will be heard..whatever is the outcome

[Earl Aelfheah]

So May is now accusing 'Brussels' of interfering in the election. Incendiary, counterproductive and far from being in the national interest. But then the Tories seem happy to destroy relations with Europe in exchange of narrow party interests.

[????]

titch juicy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It feels like it's a case of the EU acting with

> some class and May acting like a spoilt child who

> doesn't want to share with other children, but

> starts crying when the other children take their

> toys away.

May is acting in her party's interest over the country and being a bit histrionic - but really your benign view of the EU doesn't bear up to much scrutiny. This whole episode started because that lush Luxembourger leaked very disparaging remarks about May and the UK negotiations and then out of the blue the bill went up. Personally I think she'd had been far better with dignified silence but the EU acting with some class? No fooking way.

[vito]

HEY ???? I GOT TO TELL YOU A STORY

My Mum is the sweetest person in the world. well educated, polite and peaceful..

Only once she was impolite towards me or anyone as far as I remember..

During my teenage years, as for many of us, I felt the urge and need to be a rebel:)

I was reading J Kerouak and more at that time so I decided I had to be free and do what I wanted taking my decisions..

The day I decided to tell Mum i wanted to leave the house, i was provoking her looking for an argument but she is still sooo sweet and nice that there was no confrontation..so i pushed her and still no confrontation...So I told her!! I told her I wanted to have control over my life and decisions, take my staff and go my on way!!

She still was very very understanding and said i respect your decision, i don t like it but it is true she said; It s time for you to make decisions and go your own way if You feel this way...

So it will be i said!!...but than I added, i still gonna come Home for Breakfast lunch and dinner, occasionally sleep over..and once a week to use the washing machine!

IT was the only time I heard The F... You word coming out of her mouth..:))))

It still very much resounds in my head after 30 yrs..

Do you also think she was a very very bad Mum?:) :) :);)

..I thought so..:))))

[Lordship 516]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So May is now accusing 'Brussels' of interfering

> in the election. Incendiary, counterproductive and

> far from being in the national interest. But then

> the Tories seem happy to destroy relations with

> Europe in exchange of narrow party interests.

I find the government line quite mad & mayopic. For all their chat about planning & doing deals and how europe will hurt more than the UK, Europe has been working quietly to replace UK import volumes with export to alternative markets - they very obviously have a co-ordinated plan. Ireland has just signed a deal with China for premium pork, beef, crab & racehorse exports, signed a deal for exporting premium grass-fed beef to the USA etc; Germany has cleared the way for more car exports to China [in exchange for building another factory there] - a moderate increase to China will absorb all of their exports currently made to the UK; Spain has been all over South America recently doing deals & France is very active in Africa. Eurpoe is already preparing substitute markets for a hard Brexit while the Mayniacs are arguing the toss about the square root of fcuk all. I'm pretty sure that switched on companies in the UK are doing likewise but the government appears to be blinded by the glaring headlights of their own making.

For every marketing/sales person the UK can put on the ground, the EU can send 9 or 10 - critical mass is what matters & they will make more headway, faster.

[vito]

Lordship 516 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> rahrahrah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > So May is now accusing 'Brussels' of

> interfering

> > in the election. Incendiary, counterproductive

> and

> > far from being in the national interest. But

> then

> > the Tories seem happy to destroy relations with

> > Europe in exchange of narrow party interests.

>

> I find the government line quite mad & mayopic.

> For all their chat about planning & doing deals

> and how europe will hurt more than the UK, Europe

> has been working quietly to replace UK import

> volumes with export to alternative markets - they

> very obviously have a co-ordinated plan. Ireland

> has just signed a deal with China for premium

> pork, beef, crab & racehorse exports, signed a

> deal for exporting premium grass-fed beef to the

> USA etc; Germany has cleared the way for more car

> exports to China - a moderate increase to China

> will absorb all of their exports currently made to

> the UK; Spain has been all over South America

> recently doing deals & France is very active in

> Africa. Eurpoe is already preparing substitute

> markets for a hard Brexit while the Mayniacs are

> arguing the toss about the square root of fcuk

> all. I'm pretty sure that switched on companies

> in the UK are doing likewise but the government

> appears to be blinded by the glaring headlights of

> their own making.

>

> For every marketing/sales person the UK can put on

> the ground, the EU can send 9 or 10 - critical

> mass is what matters & they will make more

> headway, faster.

Surely so! But also uk has been v active..don t forget South Arabia and Philippines..:)

[Lordship 516]

Saudi Arabia market is already pretty saturated & their income has been very much reduced due to oil prices - imports down by 30% in Q4/2016 recovering v. slightly in Q1/2017. UK $7.2B, Germany $11B, China $23B, The Philippines provides a minor market opening as the US is s bit persona non grata but they are short of ready cash - was up during 2016 but has dropped back to 2015 levels [down about 18%]; US $6B, UK $550m, China $15B, Japan $8B. Uncertain political situation.

UK exports to EU - 44% of all UK exports - $240B; probably overstates the proportion of UK exports that go to the EU, because a lot of goods pass through ports like Rotterdam before being shipped to a final destination outside the EU - estimated at about 2%.

EU exports to UK - 53% of all UK imports - $322B; 18.9% of all EU exports of $1710 [not incl. UK exports]. a very minor amount overstated due to goods passing through to Ireland.

Any gains in export have to be won little by little & there needs to be a joined up strategy - UK government doesn't appear to have one. Good companies will be working on it but many will need help that appears not to be well organized.

The effects of a hard Brexit will hit the UK much harder than the EU - without doubt. Many of the UK imports can be cross-distributed to other EU countries substituting for UK exports. The UK won't have this mechanism available.

[wrong data deleted]

[Loz]

From the Beeb:

  Quote

The PM also warned of "serious" consequences if the Brexit talks failed, which would be felt by "ordinary, working people across the country".

"If we don't get the negotiation right, your economic security and prosperity will be put at risk and the opportunities you seek for your families will simply not happen.

Wasn't this the same PM who said 'no deal was better than a bad deal'? Sounds like she is now saying 'no deal' is a bad deal.

[????]

vito Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> HEY ???? I GOT TO TELL YOU A STORY

>

> My Mum is the sweetest person in the world. well

> educated, polite and peaceful..

> Only once she was impolite towards me or anyone as

> far as I remember..

>

> During my teenage years, as for many of us, I felt

> the urge and need to be a rebel:)

> I was reading J Kerouak and more at that time so I

> decided I had to be free and do what I wanted

> taking my decisions..

>

> The day I decided to tell Mum i wanted to leave

> the house, i was provoking her looking for an

> argument but she is still sooo sweet and nice that

> there was no confrontation..so i pushed her and

> still no confrontation...So I told her!! I told

> her I wanted to have control over my life and

> decisions, take my staff and go my on way!!

> She still was very very understanding and said i

> respect your decision, i don t like it but it is

> true she said; It s time for you to make decisions

> and go your own way if You feel this way...

> So it will be i said!!...but than I added, i still

> gonna come Home for Breakfast lunch and dinner,

> occasionally sleep over..and once a week to use

> the washing machine!

> IT was the only time I heard The F... You word

> coming out of her mouth..:))))

> It still very much resounds in my head after 30

> yrs..

> Do you also think she was a very very bad Mum?:)

> :) :);)

> ..I thought so..:))))

Yup - tell that to Greece! The EU isn't our mum and we pay a lot of rent. Let's stick to some grown up analysis maybe?

[Otta]

Well said Quids.