Peckham Rye Park

[Lurkio]

Does any one else feel that we do not need ice cream vans in PR park? they have the engine on all the time they are there pumping out diesel fumes in an otherwise clean ish environment, one is parked at the main entrance to the park the other inside not far from the picnic area, surely we don't need this pollution in our park, am I alone on this?

[Landy10]

I especially agree about the engine running part and was wondering when I saw one the other day - do they need the engines running for the machinery in the van to work or something? Would genuinely like to know the answer, if anyone is up on these matters.

[Nigello]

I like them but they ought to turn off the engines. I wonder whether they'd argue that they can't operate without the engine on. Is the fridge independent of the engine?

[Jules-and-Boo]

perhaps ice cream vans need the motor to power the freezer. How else would they work.

As for ice cream vans polluting the parks, perhaps it would make more of a difference to ban ALL cars. I'm sure the carbon footprint of an ice cream van is less than collective emissions from the cars that drive to and through the park....or all the roads nearby.

[Nigello]

If it's that important to you, ask the owner to switch it off. If s/he doesn't, don't buy. Not sure what else you can do, unless they are indeed going against a local bylaw, in which case you could report it.

[Burbage]

Landy10 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I especially agree about the engine running part

> and was wondering when I saw one the other day -

> do they need the engines running for the machinery

> in the van to work or something? Would genuinely

> like to know the answer, if anyone is up on these

> matters.

Yes. I asked one of them once, and they showed me their innards. There's an intriguing arrangements of rotary linkages, camshafts and the suchlike that go up into Mr Whippy's magic box. They have to be on all the time, like cement mixers, or the glistening mix of chemically-flavoured emulsified pork fat (or whatever it is these days) would lose the air that keeps it frothy and set like lard before it could hit a customer's stomach.

[TE44]

You'd have thought solar would be better, I

Googled.

http://www.treehugger.com/culture/solar-powered-ice-cream-truck-transform-video.html

There should be a move towards alternative energy

through legislation.

[Louisa]

Boo hoo. Only on this forum would someone attack a Mr Whippy van. Let them be, they're selling ice creams in a park ffs, not committing mass genocide.

Louisa.

[TE44]

Yeah right louisa, nearly 10,000 people die in London each year due to air pollution. Is Mr Whippy soley to blame, no, but he's part of the

Problem. The goverment are subsidising diesel generator plants as back up for national grid,

When they should be looking at subsidising ice cream sellers to change to cleaner alternatives.

Yes theres a sentimental history, i looked forward

To hearing the chimes in my youth , even though my family couldn't afford ice cream, broken wafers would be handed out free. Today its rip off prices, but heh lets just hold on to the good old days, and yes think about the children, cough cough. London pay for your pollution with a flake on top.

[Jules-and-Boo]

Let's see the double standards....who's getting in their car today when they could walk or go by public transport?

[KidKruger]

TE44 - not challenging, just shocked at the figures and interested to find out more about this startling statistic.

I've been in ED 27yrs so that's more than 1/4 million Londoners killed by air pollution in that period (presumably more, because air pollution was worse almost three decades ago ?).

Considering that for only a few hundred cyclists killed on roads in London each year we're redesigning the street composition, I'm surprised that there's not more being done about air quality in London Town. You'd think it'd be a national (nay, International) emergency. I wonder why it's not, with such a huge death count ?

Regarding Mr. Whippy, solar panels won't provide the energy needed to run a couple of large freezers and an ice cream dispenser.

[DulwichFox]

An Ice Cream van parked up for a couple of hours and everyone goes on about 10,000,s people dying of pollution.

Then The Fun Fair come to town with dozens of generators pumping out fumes and it's all ok.

And they have Ice Cream vans too.

Get a Grip..

Fox

[TE44]

Kid kruger heres a link, realise it is the Guardian

There is a link within the link to click, i can't do it on my phone.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/15/nearly-9500-people-die-each-year-in-london-because-of-air-pollution-study

I thought most ice cream vans had a generators, I

would not recognise an engine, never driven before.I have been grateful for lifts, I am not against

drivers nor ice cream vans.

I am worried the goverment is subsidising

diesel generator plants. I think instead it should

be subsidising businesses towards cleaner energy

where possible.

[TE44]

Hey kid kruger, why wouldnt a panel run an ice cream van. Does it need so much energy. I wouldnt have thought a fridge and ice cream maker would run

Up much.

[Louisa]

TE44 if you think things are bad now, you should have been around during the industrial revolution, or even closer to home the 1950's. The great smog, caused by coal burning fires genuinely saw thousands in London lose their lives as a result of poor air quality. Not saying it's perfect today, but by god we rarely have such imminent poor air quality days in London nowadays. Also, don't quite see the link between government subosidies for national grid support and ice cream vans. Wasn't it Gordon Brown's government who encouraged people to buy diesel less than a decade ago?

Louisa.

[TE44]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/london-toxic-air-alert-very-high-pollution-sadiq-khan-mayor-of-london-warning-system-latest-a7542036.html

5 days into 2017 London broke the annual limit

For air pollution.

[Louisa]

Breaking the annual limit for air pollution isn't great nor ideal, people with lung conditions and asthma sufferers like myself certainly notice it, but trust me it's not even close to the same levels we had in the immediate years after the war. The air was literally sodden. The river Thames was black with dirt. London isn't perfect now, but it's improved a lot.

Louisa.

[Nigello]

The advice given a decade or more go on diesel cars was done in good faith, so it is not fair to criticise that government/PM/party. It is fair, though, to criticise all parties that don't look to bringing about radical solutions.

Just because it has improved a lot doesn't mean it can'd and shouldn't be improved more and more.

You (plural) can start by ditching your car and walking or cycling or at least reducing the number of motorised trips you make. Any takers?

[Lurkio]

And why do you think it has improved Louisa?

[TE44]

Nigello, I'm refering to the gdiesel generator

Farms being subsidised now to back up the national

Grid.

Louisa I've been involved with research,looking at

Lung disease this last year and a half. Looking at

singing as a healing tool. Last week we met with

The guy who started the project to look at rssultz,

Not yet published. Although air pollution was not

Part of the study he said it definitely came up so often in the research it was impossible not to include it in the findings. I do not feel comparing

A problem from the past when the present may have got better, but still having a huge negative impact, as a point of debate , discourages recognising the problems now. Yes it has its place, but I feel it encourageous stagnancy, if thats a word, ha ha.

[Jules-and-Boo]

People want cleaner air but not if it means self sacrifice (like walking to school, walking to the shops etc).

Very easy to criticise other factors causing pollution, but it's also very easy to look closer to home and do your own bit - which will have an immediate effect.

[edhistory]

> Looking at singing as a healing tool.

Healing?

[TE44]

ED history, yes healing, as in lung functions being

Monitored, whilst learning breathing exercises, and other forms of meditation, connecting with your

breath and more importantly for me personally,

taking responsibility for my own health.

Edited to say, and singing, it is much more to me

Than just singing.

[Louisa]

The trouble with not looking at the past, is that we can easily over inflate the problems of the present. Much like global warming, we can do a lot now to decrease our carbon footprint, governments can act on emissions from vehicles, factories etc but if we don't look at the past, we don't recognise where the problem started and in fact fail to see that whatever we do now, is a drop in the ocean because the majority of the damage has probably already been done. Whatever we do now, probably won't change things much. Certainly not in the medium to long term. I can only go by what I have previously experienced compared to now, and I can assure you things are much better. Certainly not perfect, but perfection is subjective in these matters anyhow.

Louisa.

[TE44]

I think statictics are difficult around deaths,

Here's a link from greenpeace.

http://energydesk.greenpeace.org/2017/03/06/air-pollution-cause-40000-deaths-every-year-fact-check-linked/

Louisa,I understand we can learn from the past, I grew up where coal was our source for hot water, and I do believe its easy to loss view of changes

Happening now, I realise studies can take time,

Eg the waste incinerator health studied, expected

Reports 2014, delayed again.

https://www.mrw.co.uk/latest/incinerator-health-study-delayed-again/10014152.article

Yes there is a place for past as long as it doen't cloud over new areas where i believe the goverment should be accountable to prioritising studies, where we know it is affecting health.