Syringe Exchange/Methadone Services: Crystal Palace Rd

[Ko]

ChavWivaLawDegree Wrote:

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> So if there is not going to be a needle exchange

> and there is already an addiction clinic

> running,which was so unobtrusive no one even knew

> it existed, what is all the fuss about?

>

But there is still significant disagreement about whether needle exchange/methadone services are going to be there. Both the PCT and the DMC are unclear about what is being applied for - at the moment they are disagreeing with each other. I think this is shown by what has been posted above.

The PCT still hasn't shown that needle exchange/methadone services are needed. So it is still unclear if the money would be best spent on new needle exchange/methadone services, or best spent on improving/investing further in the existing addiction clinic at DMC, or even best spent on some other area of greater need.

What about the other services offered by the pharmacy - are these just as confused??? If things are confused as they seem (DMC and PCT quite obviously disagreeing about what they think is beng applied for), I just think that whatever ends up there (whether or not it includes needle exchange/methadone) is going to be ill thought out and not the best use of taxpayers' money. The NHS is already struggling and short of cash - so its even more important that the PCT is accountable and transparent in its actions.

There may be an addiction clinic already there (which I think is a good thing), but that will only operate during the surgery opening hours. The pharmacy will open until 11pm and some people want to see some risk assessment done and better lighting and better security if they are needed, etc. Security at night and a need for better lighting is already an issue on many roads in ED - numerous roads have been asking for better lighting and its not just a fear of addicts that's driving these requests.

[Ko]

See this story about a proposed clinic for drug addicts on Batsworth Road Camberwell. It is for services that are different to what is proposed here, but the point is that the PCT publicly admitted that it failed to consult properly.

Who exactly is in charge of these things at the PCT? This is obviously not the first time there has been concerns about the PCT not consulting adequately.

http://icsouthlondon.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200southlondonheadlines/tm_method=full%26objectid=18829432%26siteid=50100-name_page.html

[BARA]

talking about improved lighting - been advised that the street light outside DMC has been/is being replaced by a much brighter light. Have not been out to see it myself yet - so people cannot use that arguement.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Why do you continue to put methadone dispensing with needle exchange? They are two distinct services. If they only want to dispense methadone and already have addicts coming to the surgery for the addiction clinic, why are you still opposing it?

[bawdy-nan]

Hello CWALD

The application for the pharmacy does include the provision of needle exchange services.

The pharmacy is being applied for under regs that require them to provide needle exchange services, whether they say they want to or not.

I think that DMC should just come clean and hold a public meeting where they can set out what they want to do and make the case for it. Its evident that people do have concerns and this skulking around isn't helping at all. A bit of honesty would go a long way I think. If its been properly thought through they should be able to address people's concerns. If, as you say, this is merely an extension of what they already do and the fact of opening late at night isn't going to have a significant impact then they should be able to make the case pretty powerfully. At the moment they simply aren't saying the same thing to everyone and, inevitably, this makes people suspicious and untrusting.

They are a community service paid for and used by the community they should surely engage straightforwardly and honestly with that community?

[lozzyloz]

Consultation? Perhaps someone should email a link to this thread to the bods at DMC and PCT. They might even contribute but at least they couldn't ignore.

[BARA]

lozzyloz Wrote:

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> Consultation? Perhaps someone should email a link

> to this thread to the bods at DMC and PCT. They

> might even contribute but at least they couldn't

> ignore.

The SLP have ignored the press release which we prepared which points out the method of consultation by the PCT is flawed all the way through. That the person at the PCT manageing this application has stated that the regulations outlined by the 2005 Act are very complex. That BARA has seen a copy of letter which was sent out simply to 'All concerend' and does not list individuals or groups they have circulated to other than the obvious Medical/Health Bodies, Pharmacists etc.

It does say Patients Forums should be consulted and groups/communities that have a health link. We have interpreted that people like a local Stroke Association which has a strong health link, organisations that are promoting health protection and prevention issues i.e. We have an older persons club at the centre which provides blood pressure checks, and people from the PCT come and talk about preventative health.

In order to have a pharmacy in an area which has plenty of pharmacies, the applicant (DMC) HAS TO provide a needle exchange. Linked to the proviso re needle excchange is another proviso which states, in addition POSSIBLE SUPERVISED METHADONE CONSUMPTION which may be IMMEDIENTLY AVAILABLE or be PROVIDED AT A LATER DATE.

I have also heard that they way future primary care services will be organised is via Super Surgeries - 4 I believe are planned for the Dulwich Locality - Melbourne Grove Surgery which will move to the Dulwich Hospital when it is ever built, the others are rumoured to be DMC, The Forest Hill Road Practice and Paxton Medical Centre. each of these super surgeries will have several GPs, Nurses, therapists, possibly social workers, etc and will provide essential services such as minor surgery, diabetic clinics and the like. These Super Sized Surgeries will be replacing the small GP practices as they will not become viable to operate as they are too small to provide the range of services. What is not clear as to whether the smaller GP practices will be absorbed into the larger surgeries or whether they will be like satelitte units and send in patients to the main health centre. Another question which cannot be answered at this stage is finances. Are all the GPs at a Super Surgery going to have equal shares in the practice ( Co Operative) or will they be employed directly by the practice. We strongly believe that there is a link between Mediquick Ltd and DMC (if any one has got ?18 to spare you can request details of the company) If Mediquick own DMC - there will be several millions of pounds of PCT contracts being set up to these surgeries in the future and some very large profits or salaries are going to be made. If the DMC are going to be one of these Super Surgeries - they will need more space to expand. We could end up with a mini hospital in CP Rd. Whilst I do not believe anyone will be against a mini hospital providing services to its local community it must not be seen as a good money making scheme to make a select group of people, even richer.

Why are the PCT not fully involving the local community in this debate?. There is somewhere in a report etc, accessible by a few, all these details which translate Government policies into local realities. They are not secret as such, but published in sources that the general public would not normally think to seek out.

I seemed to have meandered off the subject a bit - which was about public consultation.

[lozzyloz]

Well hopefully after reading this the public will be more aware South London Press

[Brendan]

Guess someone has been reading this forum.

That gave me a bit of a laugh. I love the use of terms like ?desperate drug addicts? and ?leafy streets could be transformed into crime hotspots?.

[AllforNun]

It pretty sad really. Now the press has got hold the councillors will apply pressure and the whole thing will be shifted just becasue nobody wants to upset the good folk of ED. You would not give 2 $%its if this thing was moved next to a nursery, community centre in Peckham / Nunhead or near some other area other than your own. But do you even care? sadly enough the answer would be no. Funny how Heroin users have a similar mentallity to most of yours, removed from the real world with no sense or care of the effect their decisions have on others.

[lozzyloz]

AllforNun I'm a longtime great admirer of your postings. So eloquent, witty and full of insight. Keep up the good work.

PS Who's your dealer?

[AllforNun]

BARA they run a swap shop needle drop above the sweetshop on NorthCross road x

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

The tone of the SLP piece is disgusting. I hope you lot are ashamed of the way you've whipped this up to further maginalise people who are in a vulnerable position and seeking help.

I've come accross people like you when I was chair of my TRA and on my safer neighbourhood police panel in SE1, but luckily voices like yours were always drowned out by the decent caring people who outnumbered them.

This is a sickening abuse of your campaigning savvy being used to push these services onto someone else's doorstep - usually places like the estate I used to live on.

[Maurice]

Oh get off your high horse Chav.

A group of residents dare involve themselves in representative Government by demanding proper consultation and because it goes against your hippy beliefs, the group are deemed the bad guys.

By your logic, the people who get themselves into a mess should be able to pillage those who have worked hard and created a decent community. Wise up.

And what's wrong with putting services for the vunerable in estates? They are owned by us, the taxpayers, and should be reserved for vunerable people who genuinely need help in many areas. Once they are on their own two feet, they shouldn't be there anymore.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Maurice - maybe living in your ivory tower hasn't given you the ability to see that these services are needed here just as much as anywhere else, but will be denied to East Dulwich residents who need tham, because people like you don't want to see their house prices affected.

[AllforNun]

Maurice by your logic you can see into the future, i am sure you could make some decent money out of that gift.

As for estates and taxes, my taxes pay for the road outside yoursecure unit, the wardens who patrol you corridor and the pills that are obviously causing you to have visions. Visions of hoards of unwashed and mal nourished individuals ravaging crystal palace road of lead roofing, copper piping, lightbulbs, garden bulbs not to mention the huge increase in kidnapped pets to used as part of a ransom demand.

As for your consultation how about this " ok we have listened and concluded you are all badly informed, over reacting and slight hysterical. Thanks for coming, now could you close the door behind you"

[Maurice]

Ah. So we could all save a lot of money and time if we left community issues up to a very small band of enlightened intellectuals like yourself who believe the masses are not intelligent enough to know what is best.

Thank you all so much.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

"As for your consultation how about this " ok we have listened and concluded you are all badly informed, over reacting and slight hysterical. Thanks for coming, now could you close the door behind you"" - Haha couldn't have put it better myself!!

[SeanMacGabhann]

Never mind the best chip shop there is enough chips on shoulders in here to feed the whole of south-east London. Maurice, by what measurement are you quantifying "very small band"?

Reading through the entire thread (at last) I can't see much of a split along the lines you mention. Some strange bedfellows indeed on either side of the argument, some of whom would be indignant at being called intellectual

Once again the phrase "do-gooder" is bandied around as if the opposite description ("do-badder?") is somehow preferable

Forget class, IQ measurements, newspaper habits, salt-of-the-earth-quotient and all the rest of it, the situation is this: we live in a society where an increasing percentage of the population has a drug habit of various hues. If it helps you to think of them all as junkie scum lowlifes to feed your own prejudice then by all means go ahead but you will be ignoring the fact that many of them have, at some point, been pillars of the community (and many haven't - some of them will indeed already been the sort that will do you as soon as look at you - point is it's not just a black and white picture)

Any road - these people are out there. And left to their own devices, the cosy world we (would like to) inhabit is more likely to be adversely impacted than if the situation is addressed. And it can't be addressed with fear-mongering and nimby mentality

There is no point having consultations, petitions, elections if people are just going to bring along ill-informed prejudices. Plenty of people on here have provided a lot of information which broadens the picture but instead of digesting that there is still a trenchant attitude of " you're all just a bunch do-gooder, hippy, intellectual types imposing your will on the masses" which is just, at BEST, unhelpful. Every time someone actually does something instead of being a focus-group new Labourite there is an outcry of "there was no consultation" - a consultation does not mean "if someone hears me speak then they HAVE to follow my idea" - If I chose to hold a consultation on badger-baiting in the right places I would win overwhelming support. That don't mean it represents the broader picture!

Although if I had to choose who I would rather be led by.. intelligent people or....... it's a toughie alright

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Does anyone fancy helping me impose a cout d'etat by joining BARA and taking over at their AGM? I might try to enlist a few of my junkie and drug dealer friends to establish some kind of balance.

I know loads of 'scummy' locals, being something of a scumbag myself. I'll even bribe them to attend so they can also join in this consultation process.

Maybe we should start up a petition stating that

"We the undersigned, demand that BARA cease and desist in it's witch-huntery until such time as it truly f*$%ing represents the community it perports to".

[nancysmum]

BARA Wrote:

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> BARA-

> Regardless of very diverse opinions as to whether

> a needle exchange etc should or should not be

> provided,

Er,,, then ,whats the exact point? Maybe you should rename the post>

[Maurice]

You wouldn't last two weeks running a community group Chav - you all just stand on the sidelines and throw rocks when people try.

My hyperpole may not be helpful, I concede, but it was in response to equally unhelpful hyperpole. Get that law degree Chav, a mortgage, a family, and you'll soon come round to holding people responsible for their actions and a more tough love mentality.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Maurice - "You wouldn't last two weeks running a community group Chav" - For the record, I already have. For many years

"Get that law degree Chav" - I already have.

"get... a mortgage" - You can do the mortgage thing - I don't like being chained to any job I don't want.

"Get ... a family" - Done that too, and I didn't feel the need to try to buy my security and wait until my

eggs had all dried up to start.

"tough love mentality" - What love? Tough-I-don't-give-a sh!t-as-long-as-I'm-alright-Jack mentality.

[macroban]

I hope the local on-site 100-hour pharmacy service which would benefit the elderly and infirm will not get thrown out with the witch-pond water.

[Ganapati]

First of all, there aren't "all sorts of people (addicts)" using the DMC at present. According to the article in the SLPone of the partners of the centre says they serve only about 5 or 6 of them. Second of all, it looks like ED isn't the only place where objections have been raised over drug treatment facilities, so we maybe should drop the snide remarks about pristine ED not wanting to get "dirty". According to this article also of the SLP, residents of this council estate didn't want one in their neck of the woods either. And in this article, 500 Peckham/Nunhead residents didn't want a needle exchange near their patch either. Not saying it's right, just pointing out that needle exchanges aren't exactly popular ANYWHERE.

And why I'm defending the "pristine" residents of ED when I live in the dreaded Nunhead, I don't know!