Just a little venting......... share if you relate

[Saila]

also on this point.. i wonder how much impact giving girls so called 'slave-toys' makes a difference?

i'm sure if we gave them to both boys and girls it's fine and i'm sure ppl do, but just girls may be a mistake...

slave-toys was my mother's term for mini plastic hoovers, mini kitchens etc etc

[Dickensman]

If women can't do a bit of slavery now and then what are they good for?

They go off sex as soon as they say "I do"

and give up cooking the following day.

Men have to slave keeping you lot in a style of life you cannot hope to produce for yourselves and then get slagged off on this thread, is there any reason for men to shoulder the burden of a wife and a litter of rug rats?

Whats in it for him?

[berryberry]

slave-toys lol, I wouldn't give my kid shackles and a whip either salia. I know what your mum meant as it was a hot feminist theme. women should be encouraged from childhood to pursue a career but there has been a bit of a backlash with some women of this generation so focused on work they don't always relate to their role as a mother. I've met a few people who wished they had after all spent a afternoon rocking a doll to sleep all afternoon and then maybe they would have had more patience and less annoyance at motherhood. Freud said that play for children is practice for adulthood (and everyone else). We all have to clean up and do family things eventually so surely as with all things it is about striking a balance?

[Saila]

... just saying that boys *and* girls should play with slave-toys. Not just girls. Not having a go at slave toys as such.

[helena handbasket]

Charlottep I think you are right to start them on these things young. If they just understand, no questions, that they have to be a helpful member of the household, respect our home, and tidy up after themselves (even at 2) then hopefully it's just part of life. They do this at pre-school too.

My husband isn't a bad guy, far from it, but his mother did everything for him. His brother is much worse. They simply were not taught to lift a finger. It doesn't come naturally at all and you know, old dogs new tricks and all that.

He is incredibly smart, but in that absent minded professor kind of way and sometimes it feels a bit like living with Iris Murdoch in the later years.::o

I mentioned in a previous thread that I had addressed and stamped all of his Christmas cards and they just needed him to write a message (they were for his friends). Last night he was finishing them (yes, I know, on the 22 but that's actually progress so well done him!) when he came looking for me to see if we had any more envelopes. Erm, why? Because somehow he had managed to put some of the cards in the wrong envelopes. "It was all done for you! All you had to do was sign the bloody cards!" I think were my exact words. You really have to laugh!

[Keef]

women should be encouraged from childhood to pursue a career

If you have a look at another thread, there is a nice McDonald's toy that could be just the ticket! ;-)

[berryberry]

Macdonalds or motherhood? There is a kid that will be spoilt for choice!

[felt-tip]

if you had some androgynous house-husband running around in a pinnie cleaning and wiping and polishing like a trussed up washer woman you'd be shacking up with Colin your yoga teacher in 5 minutes flat.

[Au'Lait]

I love this thread! I've been labouring through under the impression that everybody else had perfect husbands that jump up to cook dinner and tend to the baby so that that their wives can rest and have bubble baths. Now that I see the truth I realise there's little point divorcing him and looking for somebody better.

[snss75]

Au'Lait, that's how I felt as well :)) Always wondered if I was the only one (except for my poor mom who has to put up with my dad, lol). This thread makes me smile, let's come back after the bank holidays and see who's ended up relaxed and who's not... Merry Christmas to everyone!

[littleEDfamily]

After me being all smug a couple of days ago after demanding my husband pick up night duty, I have had my comeuppance (sp?). His disturbed night's sleep has led to not one, but two days of chronic stomach upset. And I have therefore had to put up with his miserable self mooching about, handing me the baby for frequent and sudden bathroom trips.

It is rank.

He is clearly not man enough for this domestic lark.

[Rhubarb&Custard]

A perfectly spot-on ad', seen on TV this week, that most of us can all relate to (and very much akin to the original post)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C4UVs3JD-g

[Ann]

Hi all, my first contribution to this thread.

I've enjoyed it immensely, I now have two teenagers and have frankly been amazed at the level of 'parenting' given by some of the dads here; my husband never got up in the night to feed baby or change nappies ever! Nor indeed did I ask him to. My choice.

He's never done much about the house or the garden but he works hard for a living. Honestly I would appreciate more help around the house but perhaps I'm my worst enemy for not insisting more in the 'early years'.

That said, he's been brilliant with my son escorting him to numerous sporting events/training over the years which I couldn't possibly have done. It's quite nice to have football scores/ Ashes chats between father and son, it really is. It really is.

[sb]

.

[littleEDfamily]

Ok - contentious theory to put out there, but women have had many many moons evolving as domestic, nurturing beings, whereas by contrast, men and domesticity has been largely a development of the last 30 years (a nanosecond in evolutionary terms). Clearly, learned behaviours can and do trump elements in our genetic make up, but it does make sense that men are at a fundamental disadvantage when it comes to childcare and running a house.

Doesn't mean I won't make fun of them for it, though!;-) Or that I am personally very good at keeping house!

Ann - you sound like such a lovely women, but you've definitely spoilt the men in your house rotten!

[echo]

Not sure about the nature v nurture argument LEdf; working class women have always had a dual role in our society- the exclusive 'homemaker' was the preserve of the middle-class and the rich.

Surely its just old fashioned sexism? The type which our grand mothers, mothers and now us we are experiencing, albeit in a different form. At the end of the day, child care and house work does not 'make' money... so in our society it is not valued?

My experience is not any different from the majority of women using this forum- However when growing up I always thought I would have what a previous forumite called a 'grown up relationship'. What a silly mummy I am???

[stevel]

Personnally am loving this posting (well baring transgressions to bickering, but hey, what do we expect its christmas). Am now realising my hubbie has (many) faults but is generally a very good hubbie indeed. Slight disagreement about husbands doing 'fun' things with children. Personally I love that time. Sad as it sounds, knowing that I need to do the cleaning I'd much prefer he takes them somewhere for fun and just let me get on with it... I'd prefer that to me doing the 'fun' because I get them all the time and love the 'time out' that I get when doing housework without chasing children out of rooms, or trying to get them to re tidy the rooms I've just tidied. Love my kiddies but lvoe the time without them (bad mummy!!!)

Do continue to try and educate your men though, otherwise you risk getting a father in law like mine... he thinks he 'does his bit' ie cook meals but takes three times longer than a women/other man, uses way more things than stricktly necessary and actually does very little cooking as he's great at delegating without the people realising what he's doing... clearly I'm work shy so avoid the kitchen with him at all costs or give lots of 'direction' hehe, love men

[JDR]

Oops, SteveL posting is mine, didn't realise PC was using his user name. All coments are mine!

[Jamma]

My goodness what a depressing thread.

I'm with berry berry. Until women stop finding (some) men's shortcomings funny or acceptable there'll never be equality. And until there is equality you're letting all your children down.

I'm sure I'm being far too serious. But sexism, misogny, inequality aren't very funny.

[littleEDfamily]

Jamma - I'm not suggesting this thread is comedy gold or anything, but I think you'll find a lot of very funny comedy comes from potentially dark subjects. The fact is we are bringing up our families in times where gender roles have had a huge, in my opinion, very welcome shake up. Times of change breed conflict, and having a giggle about it is a perfectly reasonable way to cope with the ups and downs. It's all about context - for most of us, there is absolutely nothing malicious in our comments, so although you're clearly entitled to your opinion I think you finding it depressing is a little on the over-sensitive side.

[Ruth_Baldock]

LEDF; couldn't agree more! I have a whole host of headdesk moments from my husband culminating over the christmas period. I have found myself chanting "I love my husband" throgh gritted teeth at least 5 times a day.

[berryberry]

In reply to http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?29,588827,593317#msg-593317

littleEDfamily Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jamma - I'm not suggesting this thread is comedy

> gold or anything, but I think you'll find a lot of

> very funny comedy comes from potentially dark

> subjects. The fact is we are bringing up our

> families in times where gender roles have had a

> huge, in my opinion, very welcome shake up. Times

> of change breed conflict, and having a giggle

> about it is a perfectly reasonable way to cope

> with the ups and downs. It's all about context -

> for most of us, there is absolutely nothing

> malicious in our comments, so although you're

> clearly entitled to your opinion I think you

> finding it depressing is a little on the

> over-sensitive side.

I don't understand how it is not insulting to keep telling the more the one person that "no seriously it IS funny" when perhaps other people really have seen the shake up work for them and people who are left in a position where they have nothing left but laughter for their husbands behaviour. She is not being over sensitive, the joke is on you lot - it is a little bit sad but I'm sure made up for the fact you love your men and they in their own ways love you back.

I've had flu for the past week my OH has done everything he could whilst I've rested up and taken it easy. Mr Berry is amazing. He is even more amazing because he also bought me diamonds for christmas. Amazing men exist.

[kristymac1]

Mr Berry is amazing. He is even

> more amazing because he also bought me diamonds

> for christmas. Amazing men exist.

Oh dear.......

[berryberry]

its fine, take the piss all you want - I got love and diamonds to keep me warm.

[littleEDfamily]

Oh, just noticed berryberry posted her response to the board as well as PMing me. Not sure why the double....