Louisa Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I not for one second disagree with your sentiments above robbin. I do hope, for everyone's sake, that you are of course correct and the present situation does continue and that we see growth in the medium to long term as a result of this decision.Some of the political minds and members of the upper circles, have for decades had vested interests in us remaining part of the EU club. That's surely undeniable? But equally, I believe some people have genuine reasons for enjoying the globalised and perhaps rose tinted view that the EU offers opportunities on our doorstep which far outway anything we could hope for beyond that. Perhaps, in some ways, that could be perceived as quite insular BUT I do genuinely believe those people were more intelligent and informed than that, and had a genuine low for the positives brought to us from membership of the EU... 'if it ain't broke, why fix it?'. I am often perceived as perhaps being deliberately provocative on this forum, but I can assure you that I did freely vote for Brexit without fully understanding all of the bluster thrown at me during the referendum campaign. If I were offered the vote now, despite everything you say about the non-existent impending doom, I would have voted to remain. Not only because of the lies spouted, but also because it seems like an unnecessary upheaval- with the aim of achieving what exactly? Also thinking of the poor people who's lives have been turned upside down because of all the uncertainty. It just seems like a diversion off of the motorway, which leads us onto some A road heading in the same direction. What's the point? Louisa. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
titch juicy Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 robbin Wrote:-> > I'm not saying it is all going to be roses, but so> far so good (albeit we have not left yet -> obviously I just mean in comparison to the> ridiculous scaremongering scenarios predicted for> this stage) "I might be wrong, but I thought the "ridiculous scaremongering" was referring to when we leave rather than when we vote/trigger. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
titch juicy Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 robbin Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> There's only one thing I am confident about, which> is that those who constantly complain about the> referendum result are not going to help matters> moving forward and will only make themselves> miserable. You are not getting another referendum> - time to look back, recognise that you were> bombarded with lies about looming disaster (just> as you were with lies the other way about 350m for> the NHS) and try to get some perspective. If you> are still buying-in to the messages from those> same people (the Osborne types) who have now been> proved to have been completely wrong and/or lying,> then you need to have a word with yourself because> you are still being taken in.> > I'm not suggesting you strap on rose tinted> goggles, but be very wary of the messages of doom> coming from people who have been proved wrong (and> not just a bit wrong) already. If, by the way you> do still believe what that well known newspaper> editor George Osborne (and his ilk) say about> Brexit, then I have some swampland in Florida> that's going for a really good price - the> market's just about to take off - get in quick!"No-one's been proved wrong. We haven't left yet, as you acknowledge. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCat Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 titch juicy Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> > I might be wrong, but I thought the "ridiculous> scaremongering" was referring to when we leave> rather than when we vote/trigger.I think this is the type of 'ridiculous scaremongering' that Robbin is referring to...."In a sign of the panic gripping the remain campaign, the chancellor plans to say that the hit to the economy will be so large that he will have little choice but to tear apart Conservative manifesto promises in an emergency budget delivered within weeks of an out vote"https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/14/osborne-predicts-30bn-hole-in-public-finance-if-uk-votes-to-leave-eu Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendelharris Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Louisa Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------It just seems like a diversion off of> the motorway, which leads us onto some A road> heading in the same direction. What's the point? > > Louisa.Nice simile Louisa, may have to pinch that one. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loz Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 titch juicy Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> I might be wrong, but I thought the "ridiculous scaremongering" was referring to when we leave> rather than when we vote/trigger.True, though the collapse in the value of the pound was pretty immediate following the vote. But bad stuff is happening already in the wake of the triggering of Article 50. Today, Lloyds announce 1 in 7 jobs are off to Brussels.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39441035 Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otta Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 red devil Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> After the tub-thumping of her Tory party> conference and Lancaster Gate speeches, May's> letter looked decidedly conciliatory by> comparison. As a Remainer I'm not one who wishes> the economy to go belly-up just so I can later say> ''I told you so''. It's a difficult situation to> be in, I don't want Brexit to be a success because> one day I would want us to rejoin the EU, but> equally I don't want the country to suffer> economically. Personally I believe there will be> hardship, but probably no worse than the credit> crunch, and we'll therefore have to put up with> many more years of 'austerity'. But for me it> wasn't just about the economy, there's the social> aspect too. How we're perceived as a nation to the> rest of the world. I don't particularly want to> live in a country that's doing ok economically if> it means isolationism, inward thinking, and an> increasingly xenophobic and jingoistic outlook,> and that's how it's felt since the referendum.> Then there's the long-term political outlook. The> hard-right of the Tory party seized their chance> and have taken a power-hold on their party. May> has become a puppet, the acceptable face of> Brexit. They are hell-bent on leaving the EU at> any cost, even if it means Scotland leaving the> Union. And if that happens their grip will get> even tighter. Overnight a Tory majority goes from> a smallish one to a very comfortable one. In a> democracy, regardless of your politics, an> effective opposition is a prerequisite, and we> certainly haven't got that now despite the Gov's> small majority, and it's likely to get worse> unless Corbyn does the decent thing. Still, the> sun will continue to come up...This ^^^ Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnL Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 TheCat Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> titch juicy Wrote:> --------------------------------------------------> -----> > > > > I might be wrong, but I thought the "ridiculous> > scaremongering" was referring to when we leave> > rather than when we vote/trigger.> > I think this is the type of 'ridiculous> scaremongering' that Robbin is referring to....> > "In a sign of the panic gripping the remain> campaign, the chancellor plans to say that the hit> to the economy will be so large that he will have> little choice but to tear apart Conservative> manifesto promises in an emergency budget> delivered within weeks of an out vote"> > https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/14/o> sborne-predicts-30bn-hole-in-public-finance-if-uk-> votes-to-leave-euThat assumed Article 50 was to be triggered in June 2016.Also So far the government have allowed the devaluation of the poundto be a buffer against any issues (which Osborne would have done too),but we really don't know where we're headed at the moment - it's likethe phoney war before the blitz hit. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
titch juicy Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Loz Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> titch juicy Wrote:> --------------------------------------------------> -----> > I might be wrong, but I thought the "ridiculous> scaremongering" was referring to when we leave> > rather than when we vote/trigger.> > True, though the collapse in the value of the> pound was pretty immediate following the vote. > > But bad stuff is happening already in the wake of> the triggering of Article 50. Today, Lloyds> announce 1 in 7 jobs are off to Brussels.> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39441035and Goldmans, UBS and HSBC toohttp://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/goldman-sachs-brexit-bank-jobs-move-out-london-city-eu-deals-european-union-negotiations-a7641876.htmlhttp://uk.reuters.com/article/us-davos-meeting-hsbc-idUKKBN1520SO Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120434 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidKruger Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I working in banking and have lost 2 jobs since the referendum, ostensibly because of the Leave vote.It's happening and the effects will I guess hit the rest of the country after some time. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaywalker Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 We are leaving, at great cost.Yet we will stillbe subject to the ECJ (to get any kind of a trade deal)take in several hundred thousand migrant workers each year (not to do so would close the NHS and care homes immediately, not to mention most of the businesses in London).And this in a general climate of increasing protectionism in which all trade opportunities that remain open will be incredibly precious.Do the Brexiters actually think they will get what they want? If the negotiations collapse then May will be out - the Repeal Acts will be defeated in both Lords and Commons.Update on BBC News tonight. Independence from ECJ promised by Davies. Well, then we cannot have a trade deal. If we have a trade deal it must be actionable in the courts with those countries we have the deal. In the EU this means the ECJ. So, the government are not planning a trade deal? Or anything much at all, actually? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCat Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 jaywalker Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> We are leaving, at great cost.> > Yet we will still> > be subject to the ECJ (to get any kind of a trade> deal)> > take in several hundred thousand migrant workers> each year (not to do so would close the NHS and> care homes immediately, not to mention most of the> businesses in London).> > And this in a general climate of increasing> protectionism in which all trade opportunities> that remain open will be incredibly precious.> > Do the Brexiters actually think they will get what> they want? If the negotiations collapse then May> will be out - the Repeal Acts will be defeated in> both Lords and Commons.> > Update on BBC News tonight. Independence from ECJ> promised by Davies. Well, then we cannot have a> trade deal. If we have a trade deal it must be> actionable in the courts with those countries we> have the deal. In the EU this means the ECJ. So,> the government are not planning a trade deal? Or> anything much at all, actually?Sorry, I don't understand the basis for your comment. Perhaps i've missed something, in which case I'm all ears...but countries like Mexico, morroco, south Korea and south Africa all have free trade agreements with the EU, and none of them are within the jurisdiction of the ECJ..... Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncleglen Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Lloyds of London (NOT to be confused with Lloyds bank)is a bunch of insurance brokers sitting in a building in the square mile- where they work from does not matter. All that matters is that the 'names' underwrite the risks. The building is horrible and started the trend of vile architecture dominating the London skylinehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd%27s_of_London Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
red devil Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 jaywalker Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> take in several hundred thousand migrant workers> each year (not to do so would close the NHS and> care homes immediately, not to mention most of the> businesses in London).Not so fast, robbin of Brexitwood hath spoken:...but there's also major benefits - a substantial increase in tourism, hotels sold out, restaurants busy, local businesses in London busier...We're gonna need a lot more of those pesky immigrants!... Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendelharris Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 uncleglen Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> Lloyds of London (NOT to be confused with Lloyds> bank)is a bunch of insurance brokers sitting in a> building in the square mile- where they work from> does not matter. All that matters is that the> 'names' underwrite the risks. The building is> horrible and started the trend of vile> architecture dominating the London skyline> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd%27s_of_LondonI don't suppose anybody did confuse them with Lloyds Bank, do you? However, to say that from where the brokers do their work doesn't matter is nonsense: the average broker salary at Lloyds is around ?150,000, so for every one they send abroad that's around a ?60,000 loss to the UK exchequer. OK, they're only planning to send around a hundred to Brussels at present, so that's "only" ?6M in lost tax/NI revenue, but if that's replicated across the city we're talking many billions lost in direct revenue, plus their purchasing power. It matters rather a lot, the UK economy is heavily shored up by London's position as one of the world's most important financial hubs, when they go elsewhere we all lose out. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loz Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 rendelharris Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> uncleglen Wrote:> --------------------------------------------------> -----> > Lloyds of London (NOT to be confused with Lloyds> > bank)is a bunch of insurance brokers sitting in a> > building in the square mile- where they work from> > does not matter. All that matters is that the> > 'names' underwrite the risks. The building is> > horrible and started the trend of vile> > architecture dominating the London skyline> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd%27s_of_London> > I don't suppose anybody did confuse them with> Lloyds Bank, do you? However, to say that from> where the brokers do their work doesn't matter is> nonsense: the average broker salary at Lloyds is> around ?150,000, so for every one they send abroad> that's around a ?60,000 loss to the UK exchequer. > OK, they're only planning to send around a hundred> to Brussels at present, so that's "only" ?6M in> lost tax/NI revenue, but if that's replicated> across the city we're talking many billions lost> in direct revenue, plus their purchasing power. It> matters rather a lot, the UK economy is heavily> shored up by London's position as one of the> world's most important financial hubs, when they> go elsewhere we all lose out.Not to mention a *lot* of jobs lost. Both directly and indirectly. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnL Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 Well Theresa May's fans calling out a win now after Donald Tusk does concede a little- Some parallel talks- He acknowledges the security misunderstanding (it wasn't it was a huge mistake and TMs been let off)Whats happening is the EU is taking the lead on setting the agenda here. Have they not heard of conceding minor points to win the big ones :) Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loz Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 JohnL Wrote:------------------------------------------------------- > Whats happening is the EU is taking the lead on setting the agenda here. Have they not heard of> conceding minor points to win the big ones :)And, after a week of dithering by May, the EU is today taking the lead on establishing the rights of EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Django Wisteria Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Bollocks to thislet's all be Bwitish and miserable and exclude "johnny foreigner"I refuse to call myself "British" now after this debacleWe should be ashamed of our so called maturer citizens who voted overwhelmingly to leaveWhat is there to be "happy" about !It's a power grab by the Tories combined with a complete attack on our civil liberties. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnL Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 Mr Django Wisteria Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> Bollocks to this> > let's all be Bwitish and miserable and exclude> "johnny foreigner"> > I refuse to call myself "British" now after this> debacle> > We should be ashamed of our so called maturer> citizens who voted overwhelmingly to leave> > What is there to be "happy" about !> > It's a power grab by the Tories combined with a> complete attack on our civil liberties.I voted remain and am a child of the 60s.What I discovered though (due to this) - The baby boomergeneration is considered to have ended in 1964 which meansI'm Generation X (just) :) Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnL Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 Mr Django Wisteria Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> It's a power grab by the Tories combined with a> complete attack on our civil liberties.And when they said all EU laws would be translatedto UK law then parliament would debate any changesOK the Charter of Fundamental rights maybe a loadof BS - but we agreed on how this was to be done andnow the precedent has been set."While the Bill will provide for around 19,000 piecesof EU legislation to be brought onto Britain?s statutebooks, the Charter of Fundamental Rights will not be oneof them."http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/30/uk-takes-back-right-deport-britain-repeals-powers-eu/ Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louisa Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 It's not just about age, though that did play a part.It was;Urban vs RuralNorth vs South Poor vs WealthyThis whole thing was basically brought about by a London centric government ignoring English regions, where poverty reigned and no one in power bothered to do anything about it. A modern day peasants revolt ultimately, but obviously more complex than JUST that. Louisa. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
titch juicy Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Hendersons now talking about moving their HQ from London to Luxembourg. I also read that Lloyds expects other insurers to follow. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnL Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 Someone reads through the whole EU document?After the United Kingdom leaves the Union, no agreement between the EU and the UK may apply to the territory of Gibraltar without the agreement between the kingdom of Spain and the UK.?And the papers scream !!! Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
???? Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Loz Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> rendelharris Wrote:> --------------------------------------------------> -----> > uncleglen Wrote:> >> --------------------------------------------------> > > -----> > > Lloyds of London (NOT to be confused with> Lloyds> > > bank)is a bunch of insurance brokers sitting> in a> > > building in the square mile- where they work> from> > > does not matter. All that matters is that the> > > 'names' underwrite the risks. The building> is> > > horrible and started the trend of vile> > > architecture dominating the London skyline> > >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd%27s_of_London> > > > I don't suppose anybody did confuse them with> > Lloyds Bank, do you? However, to say that from> > where the brokers do their work doesn't matter> is> > nonsense: the average broker salary at Lloyds> is> > around ?150,000, so for every one they send> abroad> > that's around a ?60,000 loss to the UK> exchequer. > > OK, they're only planning to send around a> hundred> > to Brussels at present, so that's "only" ?6M in> > lost tax/NI revenue, but if that's replicated> > across the city we're talking many billions> lost> > in direct revenue, plus their purchasing power.> It> > matters rather a lot, the UK economy is heavily> > shored up by London's position as one of the> > world's most important financial hubs, when> they> > go elsewhere we all lose out.> > Not to mention a *lot* of jobs lost. Both> directly and indirectly.I'm not being argumentative here but people have to think a bit wider..this isn't a non-moving vacuum so here's some random thoughts- we will lose some high end jobs, but not as many as the acoplytic forecasts predict but -numerous EU companies have pass-porting rights into the UK for finance if these go too (as they will if ours do) that creates opportunities and jobs here by EU companies having to set up here to access capital/have UK customers etc- if we come to no finance deal with the EU that creates opportunities in some reduced restriction/regulation which makes the UK a more attractive place for some financial companies, hedge funds and other forms of finance/investment etc- taking SOME of the froth off our over reliance on Finance and the City isn't a bad thing in the medium term (rebalance, house prices etc)- the huge amount of capital controlled, assetss managed & held here will look wider than europe for investment opportunities (it does already of course but this will be accelerated)and growth elsewhere is looking far healthier- there's a lot of bright and motivated people in London, we'll lose some but some will look and find opportunities not yet realized, we have far more flexibility, rules, ease of start ups, and access to finance for entrepreneurship than our big EU rivals -especially France and Germany -skill shortages is the potential issue here so that does need addressing.The general tone among the worried is that UK based business/finance/entreprneurship/capital will just sit here doing nothing whilst EU rivals chip away at it. Clever people are doing stuff now not waiting on dullard politicians.Finally, as I said before, nice to see finance, bankers, hedgefunders etc suddenly loved and adored by the Guardian and other lefties after 10 yesr of "feck em, stick them all in jail" lunatic rhetoric. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/147389-happy-brexit-day/page/2/#findComment-1120674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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