England football fans

[malumbu]

We've only got three songs, we've only got three songs, we've only got three songs.

I've avoided watching England live. When both in Brazil and in France I was worried that things would conspire against me, particularly the perfect storm of Brexit and England making the quarters in Paris. I'd have been happy with the latter in retrospect.

In Manaus I was at the tail end of the English invasion arriving after the defeat to Italy. Educated people, my age, telling me who they were going to give the yanks a kicking (American's were arriving for the Portugal match), presumably for only having one song, and how they threatened the locals as Brazilians had supported Italy in the previous match.

In the square some younger fans were shocked when I stood up and booed the UK national anthem - even when I explained (a) it is not the English national anthem (b) I am an atheist © I am a republican (actually not that bothered about the royal family as long as they are just round for ceremonial stuff and get proper jobs and pay bedroom and second house tax (d) we all booed the national anthem at matches in the 70s.

I was also struck by a mate who saw England Wales in a few years ago at Wembley, with fans 'baaing' at the Welsh (something to do with sheep) and as he says that Bloody Sheffield Wednesday brass band.

I know they are not all like that. Pictures from France when it all kicked off in Marseille shows there were a lot of 'normal' people, dads and lads etc. But it was a pleasure being in Paris with 10,000 Icelanders. I saw some peed up Brits in the Irish bar singing Ingerland Ingerland, and one guy being arested on the station on the way back for taunting the French security (what a bunt). Hmmm, stereotypical?

And it got on my preverbials listening to some of the friendly last night with the chanting. Here is mine. "You are a very successful country with much greater productivity and a better work life balance, but actually we are very similar let's have a nice beer together, la la la". Haven't quite got that right yet, and need a tune.

I was also in Cologne in 2006 and the party atmosphere took a dive as English fans arrived.

Am I being unfair??

[Loz]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> We've only got three songs, we've only got three

> songs, we've only got three songs.

To be fair, that's two songs more than the Barmy Army.

[malumbu]

Ah the barmy army. I went to Bangalore in 2002 and expected a load of obnoxious twots, with clearly too much money and very high opinions of themselves. As this was not Australia or the West Indies it was hard core. Around 200 England fans there, some the types I've referred to above, others at the high end corporate, but a fair few who had travelled for days on the Indian railways, some even from the earlier Bangladesh tour, sleeping in dorms or on floors on a shoestring. Respect. I bumped into one at Kandy in Sri Lanka a couple of years later which was a bit strange ("wasn't I shouting to you across the stands, and finding out that you knew people I went to school with?").

Didn't get the same attachment with the footy fans in Manaus.

[malumbu]

Hmmm

Even Radio 5 Live seems to be more interested in this. Caught a tail end of an article about fans throwing beer at the opposition as well as the mindless stuff about World Wars. I was born less than two decades after the end of the war, we played war games at play time, watched war movies, nobody wanted to be a German guard when we played escape from Colditz and we read comic books where the good old Tommy always one ("take that Fritz").

So why do people often 20 years younger that me have this supremecy complex? We are not a very good master race.

Anyway do tell me I am wrong, this is all about learning and debate rather than my monologue.

[????]

I was also in Cologne in 2006 and the party atmosphere took a dive as English fans arrived

Didn't they win Fans of the Tournament in 2006 and there were minimal arrests and absolutely thousands out there - I'm not sure why you bother going given you seem to hate the english supporters so much? The team certainly hasn't worth being followed since 1998

[DuncanW]

It's not the English national anthem, I don't think there is such a thing. I'm also an atheist and republican, but couldn't envisage myself booing it! What't the point in that. And I don't remember us 'all' doing so in the 70's! What matches were these?

[malumbu]

Didn't go to see England in 2006. Stayed with a lovely divorcee through a rent a room out scheme by the German authorities. Top marks. Couldn't score tickets for the Argentina/Serbia match at Gelsenkirchen, and sadly neither the Czech Republic vs Ghana in Cologne, but what a lovely setting for a stadium in a park. And talking about great stadia did get tickets for the Switzerland Togo game, which was poor but a brilliant stadium (Westfalenstadion).

The atmosphere in Cologne was great, with sets of fans sitting in opposite pavement cafes singing without one drop of lager being thrown. You could feel an edge coming as England fans arrived, the ones I spoke to were pleasantly surprised at the friendly welcome and that the German people did not meet any of the stereotypes they expected.

I am just telling it as I saw it. Has the atmosphere got worse? It feels that way after 1996 and 1998 but go back to the wonderful summer of 1990 and it was kicking off in many towns across the country. So is what happened in Dormund just what you see on most provincial towns on a Friday night, and in the popular European beach resorts? I would like to think that we could do better than this.

Mates who went to Euro 16 wsw tge Ireland Sweden match which was the opposite, with both sets of fans being so nice that they missed the rivalry and the atmosphere that this created.

I wouldn't usually use the Sun as a source but if half if this is true it's rather sad

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/3156302/england-fans-let-themselves-and-the-nation-down-against-germany-in-dortmund/

And as for booing our own national anthem, certainly happened in the cup fnals in the early 70s when we were a bunch of lefties always on strike. It may have been a few whistles rather than boos but it wasn't sung as a chant as now.

Anyway the English nationalism thread proably covers my points.