Martin McGuinness

[JohnL]

Although when I was at school it was still taught as the British Empire was a benevolent empire.

My parents didn't disagree with that either - I think it was received wisdom up to the 80s - which became entrenched to some extent. The Germans never at any stage pretended the third reich was anything other than evil after 1945(as it was self evident)

[miga]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------

> I wouldn't

> expect a German to apologise / feel guilt or "face

> up to" the actions of Hitler, because it was

> absolutely nothing to do with them),

I think German kids spend a lot of time at school even now learning about this period of history, they even have a name for the process: Vergangenheitsbew?ltigung (won't let me post Wiki link to it, so you might need to google).

That seems like a good idea, i guess South Africans had their Truth and Reconciliation commmission too.

[????]

Still waiting for an eulogy for the terrorsist who was shot outside the Houses of Parliament yesterday.....

[steveo]

Misunderstood

Failed by the education system

Radicalised by his dope dealer

Went to a mosque once

Unsuccessful with girls

Couldn't sit on a toilet the right way round...

[steveo]

...His ambition was to be a rapper

[Earl Aelfheah]

That's actually very good (and likely quite accurate) steveo.

[Mick Mac]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Still waiting for an eulogy for the terrorsist who

> was shot outside the Houses of Parliament

> yesterday.....

For MM the praise from political leaders in NI and the rest of the U.K. And the wider world was almost unanimous- my comments are similar - Bill Clinton may attend his funeral and the Queen with whom he met several times, has written a personal message of codolence to his family.

Quids - you are a different person from what I thought you to be and that is surprising and disappointing for our friendship

[JoeLeg]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Still waiting for an eulogy for the terrorsist who

> was shot outside the Houses of Parliament

> yesterday.....

You're a twat. That's a totally unneccesary comment designed purely to make you look good and put someone else on the wrong side of an argument.

Transparent, and pathetic.

[steveo]

Rent a mourner. Clinton's got nothing else to do but grandstand

[Otta]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ???? Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Still waiting for an eulogy for the terrorsist

> who

> > was shot outside the Houses of Parliament

> > yesterday.....

>

> For MM the praise from political leaders in NI and

> the rest of the U.K. And the wider world was

> almost unanimous- my comments are similar - Bill

> Clinton may attend his funeral and the Queen with

> whom he met several times, has written a personal

> message of codolence to his family.

>

> Quids - you are a different person from what I

> thought you to be and that is surprising and

> disappointing for our friendship

Yeah because all those people are going to risk uosetting the delicate apple cart with the pesky truth. Not likely, beat kept in the past, he did the right thing in the end, blah blah blah.

[JohnL]

Arlene Foster is going.

[Mick Mac]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Arlene Foster is going.

Yes - haha - that really is not significant.

I have to say, the person who I think comes out of the whole MM transition with greatest respect is the Queen.

[Earl Aelfheah]

For a long time he was part of the problem. Then he wasn't. He did some terrible things, for which he never expressed any regret. I don't think he should be lionised. Maybe his passing should be seen as an opportunity to put another bit of a generally shameful past behind us.

[steveo]

JoeLeg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ???? Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Still waiting for an eulogy for the terrorsist

> who

> > was shot outside the Houses of Parliament

> > yesterday.....

>

>

> You're a twat. That's a totally unneccesary

> comment designed purely to make you look good and

> put someone else on the wrong side of an argument.

>

>

> Transparent, and pathetic.

Well it didn't make him look good in your eyes did it

[Loz]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> For a long time he was part of the problem. Then he wasn't. He did some terrible things, for which

> he never expressed any regret. I don't think he should be lionised.

^^ This.

Although I recognised McGuinness' crucial role in the peace deal and his bravery to actually come to the table, he has never actually repented for his crimes.

I rather wish he's left a document answering the numerous questions he has refused to answer over the last 20 years, but I somehow doubt it.

[steveo]

P'raps Gerry will fess up

[JohnL]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Arlene Foster is going.

>

> Yes - haha - that really is not significant.

>

> I have to say, the person who I think comes out of

> the whole MM transition with greatest respect is

> the Queen.

The Queen does have reason to hate McGuinness - Lord

Mountbatten (not the best of people himself) was a

bit of a mentor to Charles etc.

I wonder what the Queen secretly feels.

[Mick Mac]

Yes - That's why I said it. Apparently they spoke about it.

And irrespective of her private feelings, it was a great gesture by her.

Martin McGuinness raised the issue of the murder of the Queen?s cousin Lord Mountbatten during their private talks last week.

The Stormont deputy First Minister revealed that he addressed the 1979 IRA murder when he met the Queen in Belfast last Wednesday.

The former IRA commander shared an historic handshake with the Queen at the city?s Lyric theatre, but their conversation took place during a private meeting at the venue.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2167473/Martin-McGuinness-reveals-spoke-Queens-murdered-cousin-private-meeting.html#ixzz4c9LXAGkC

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[Alan Medic]

This covers everything I want to say on many subjects. Whose finger is it?

[????]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ???? Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Still waiting for an eulogy for the terrorsist

> who

> > was shot outside the Houses of Parliament

> > yesterday.....

>

> For MM the praise from political leaders in NI and

> the rest of the U.K. And the wider world was

> almost unanimous- my comments are similar - Bill

> Clinton may attend his funeral and the Queen with

> whom he met several times, has written a personal

> message of codolence to his family.

>

> Quids - you are a different person from what I

> thought you to be and that is surprising and

> disappointing for our friendship

Hi Mick, I am sorry I offended you and certainly my post looks more personally directed at you than what was meant as a general point and absolutely would have been better on another thread - probably this one - so apologies.

My general point - and one that was annoying maybe even angering me - is that the coverage between yesterday's events and Guinness eulogies in the press and the treatment of yesterday's attacker seemed very disconnected when at the end of the day they both were involved in some kind of terrorism and both targeted innocent people .

[????]

JoeLeg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ???? Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Still waiting for an eulogy for the terrorsist

> who

> > was shot outside the Houses of Parliament

> > yesterday.....

>

>

> You're a twat. That's a totally unneccesary

> comment designed purely to make you look good and

> put someone else on the wrong side of an argument.

>

>

> Transparent, and pathetic.

I genuinely couldn't give a toss what someone I don't know on an internet forum thinks about me

[JoeLeg]

That's probably good; if you make a habit of comments like that you'll need to develop a thick skin.

I mean really, Mick has a sympathetic viewpoint for an IRA terrorist so you assume he will eulogise that (thankfully no longer) waste of oxygen from yesterday? Cheap shot, badly done.

Personally I think there's plenty of fault to be found with his view of McGuinness, and none of it means he has sympathy for any other cause.

[rodneybewes]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JoeLeg Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > ???? Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Still waiting for an eulogy for the

> terrorsist

> > who

> > > was shot outside the Houses of Parliament

> > > yesterday.....

> >

> >

> > You're a twat. That's a totally unneccesary

> > comment designed purely to make you look good

> and

> > put someone else on the wrong side of an

> argument.

> >

> >

> > Transparent, and pathetic.

>

>

> I genuinely couldn't give a toss what someone I

> don't know on an internet forum thinks about me

It shows

[Mick Mac]

Red Devil wrote>>>>>

The question was asked in relation to MM's comment I extend that to all innocent victims of terrorism.

Along with the British Army, British politicians, the Royal family etc, the IRA saw the police as legitimate targets, so I wanted to know if he felt that a policemen murdered by Republican terrorists during The Troubles should be classed as an innocent victim or not...

Innocent victims of terrorism - yes. As in they themselves are not terrorists

Whether those in the organisations named above all performed their roles with the honesty and fairness that all of the public should have a right to expect in a democracy is a very different matter.

Whether those directing the members of these organisations, directed them to do illegal acts again is another matter. Whether they deliberately protected one part of the community whilst costing the lives of another part of the community is another.

State collusion in terrorist killing of catholics has been the subject of a British enquiry, been proven, and furthermore the British Government has apologised publically. Yes publically.

For example, when the British state, including the police force, army and probably MI5 colludes with British terrorists to kill a catholic solicitor then catholics rightly feel that the rule of law has broken down and feel threatened by the state.

So, as you know, you are asking a very dumb question.

"David Cameron has apologised to the family of the murdered Belfast lawyer Pat Finucane and agreed that there was state collusion between police officers and soldiers and his loyalist killers.

Launching the De Silva report into one of the most divisive murders of the Northern Ireland Troubles, the prime minister said there were "shocking levels of collusion" in the killing. Cameron told the House of Commons that the depth of the co-operation between the security forces and Finucane's loyalist killers was "unacceptable".

The prime minister admitted that the report made for "extremely difficult reading" in regard to Sir Desmond de Silva's findings, such as the revelation that 80% of the Ulster Defence Association's (terrorists) intelligence information came from official state sources."

When the state is supplying the terrorists with the state's own intelligence, the line between state and terrorist obviously becomes blurred.

[JohnL]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> State collusion in terrorist killing of catholics

> has been the subject of a British enquiry, been

> proven, and furthermore the British Government has

> apologised publically. Yes publically.

Of course they did - some horrible dodgy stuff went on.

You only have to google FRU and Stakeknife to read up

on some of it.