Poor transport links: any one else thinking of fleeing East Dulwich?

[Earl Aelfheah]

What about Brixton?

[geobz]

d.b Wrote:

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> Seems to be a common complaint but I'm not sure it

> holds much water. Southern trains have actually

> been running pretty reliably recently, just fine

> this morning despite the strike. Overground from

> Denmark Hill / Peckham Rye was opened in the last

> few years and has actually added a new and very

> useful connection. Buses have never been the

> quickest round here but there are new cleaner

> quieter more efficient models, and the number of

> services has definitely gone up.

>

> Basically for anyone who moved here in the last 10

> years, whatever price or rent you paid is

> dependent on the area (nice high street, nice

> period housing, relatively quiet/traffic free,

> decent schools etc) and the transport links are

> just one part of it. If you want to find something

> at a similar price with better transport links

> you're going to have to compromise on something

> else. That's how it works.

>

> At the end of the day I'd say we're pretty lucky

> here, we have a nice area and it's really only 20

> mins into London Bridge from ED station, or 15

> mins round to Canada Water/12 mins into Victoria

> from Denmark Hill.

>

> Sure we don't have the tube running every 3 mins

> and sometimes we have to stand/squash ourselves

> onto trains at busy times, but mostly you should

> have known that when you moved here, it hasn't

> really changed much, and at the end of the day you

> still get where you want to go, even if there's a

> 5-10 minute delay which might feel like hours to

> an impatient soul...

Southern rail has been running perfectly fine lately? You sir must be living in another planet.

They have delays and cancellations all over the place, the fact that the specific train you've been using is there doesn't mean the rest of them are running properly. Also check your commute times, you'll find out that your trains are always delayed by 5-10 minutes reaching their destination.

[BrandNewGuy]

"Pretty reliably" is not the same as "perfectly fine". I'm with d.b. on this one.

[bobbsy]

Me too. Public transport has definitely worsened, and traffic congestion has also worsened, in my opinion.

[Jeremy]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> What about Brixton?

I think if you want a good location, it's going to be quite expensive (i.e. more than ED)

[d.b]

Right, by "pretty reliable recently" I mean since they reopened after the summer, and of course as usual there are the 5-10 minute delays and occasional cancellations or problems.

However, with a bit of perspective, a 5-10 minute delay isn't the end of the world, you're still getting into town in 20-25 mins, or if you have to wait for the next train then it's 35-40 mins most of the time.

It's not ideal, but really par for the course with commuter rail in London, certainly you should be able to live with it. And you get a lot else to balance it out. If you want somewhere with the reliability of the tube, you'll pay through the nose for it I'm afraid.

[Jess85]

We are WD not ED, But still have found that commuting has gotten gradually worse over the past 4 years we have been here. People seemed to have moved this way out in their droves (perhaps priced out of the claphams, balhams and such) which is of course fine, but the local transport and infrastructure has fallen way behind. Daily journeys are now painful, it's hit or miss whether you get on the train/bus/make it into work on time etc. Next year, trains will no longer run from WD to London bridge. I cannot understand why. Meaning the Victoria line train trains will become even more crowded.

Moving further out I'm not sure is the answer. Maybe you get more for your money, but if the journey is horrendously unreliable and long, you won't ever be in your lovely property to enjoy it!

The worsening commute is one of the reasons why we will look to leave in the next year I think.

[JohnL]

d.b Wrote:

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> Right, by "pretty reliable recently" I mean since

> they reopened after the summer, and of course as

> usual there are the 5-10 minute delays and

> occasional cancellations or problems.

>

> However, with a bit of perspective, a 5-10 minute

> delay isn't the end of the world, you're still

> getting into town in 20-25 mins, or if you have to

> wait for the next train then it's 35-40 mins most

> of the time.

>

> It's not ideal, but really par for the course with

> commuter rail in London, certainly you should be

> able to live with it. And you get a lot else to

> balance it out. If you want somewhere with the

> reliability of the tube, you'll pay through the

> nose for it I'm afraid.

Anecdotally it's been said people have lost jobs over

Southern. It is the daily 0 - 15 minutes lateness

that gets to me - it means the train is more crowded too

(as customers for the next train turn up).

[BrandNewGuy]

But our 'metro' service has been nowhere near as bad as the longer-distance Southern services. And if you live in Brighton, there's not much alternative to the train if you're a commuter. If you live in East Dulwich and if you were seriously at risk of losing your job, surely you'd get up half an hour earlier and jump on a bus.

[DulwichLondoner]

BrandNewGuy Wrote:

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> But our 'metro' service has been nowhere near as

> bad as the longer-distance Southern services. And

> if you live in Brighton, there's not much

> alternative to the train if you're a commuter. If

> you live in East Dulwich and if you were seriously

> at risk of losing your job, surely you'd get up

> half an hour earlier and jump on a bus.

Very true. This is one of the reasons why I'd never consider an area like Bromley, ie farther away and served by Southern only. I can commute by motorcycle from East Dulwich; I suppose I could from Bromley, too, but it would take too long.

[DuncanW]

DulwichLondoner Wrote:

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> DuncanW Wrote:

> >

> > I grew up in Bromley

>

> What do you think of Bromley vs ED? Cheaper but

> there's less of a high street?

Bromley is okay but quite different from ED; more suburban and socially conservative. Bigger houses at less money per square foot attracts families with older children and grown-up children, whereas ED is more popular with young families.

The High St is big and there is a shopping mall, but it's much more chain orientated than ED.

It's a larger town, so transport in from Bromley South is good for Victoria or Blackfriars. Bromley North goes to London Bridge and Charring X, but this service is slow - 40 mins...

[Townleygreen]

Bromley is served mostly by Southeastern, not Southern. 16 mins to Victoria. Not too bad!

[Jeremy]

BrandNewGuy Wrote:

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> If you live in East Dulwich and if you were seriously

> at risk of losing your job, surely you'd get up

> half an hour earlier and jump on a bus.

Assuming you don't have kids to drop off first...

[DulwichLondoner]

Good to know it's Southeatern and not Southern - thanks!

As for the time, however, I have just checked tomorrow's schedule on the national rail website. From Bromley South, there are 7 trains between 7.57 am and 8.27am. They take from 26 to 31 minutes - none takes 16 minutes.

[Townleygreen]

You are correct - how strange! There are 16 minute trains running now, but not in the morning rush.

[bil]

@DulwichLondoners original post:

Yes I completely agree!! Transport links are suboptimal in ED. I've considered moving numerous times because I'm frustrated that it takes so long to travel into central London when we are so close (distance-wise). Cycling is great for many but will never be a practical option for me. My husband uses a scooter so if that works for you consider a scooter or motorbike.

There are many areas in London that are better served and have cheaper house prices but have other compromises. ED is lovely and I reckon the extra money we would pay in stamp duty wouldn't be worth the transport efficiency gains experienced by having better access to transport. I love Dulwich for so many reasons (beautiful green spaces galore, LL is fab and nearly everything you need (except for rapid transport) is within easy reach, it is easy drive to central London which is very handy in the evening). I get bus P4 to Brixton (if roads are congested it can take 20-40 minutes) and use the super fast Victoria line. Brixton is great because it is the first stop on the line and the trains are frequent.As with most stations, it is heaving during rush hour! One day I'll muster the courage to get a scooter...

[BrandNewGuy]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> BrandNewGuy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > If you live in East Dulwich and if you were

> seriously

> > at risk of losing your job, surely you'd get up

> > half an hour earlier and jump on a bus.

>

> Assuming you don't have kids to drop off first...

Find a neighbour or friends with kids at the school. Or drop the kids off early. If your job was at risk, I'm sure you'd be creative :-)

[Jeremy]

BrandNewGuy Wrote:

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> drop the kids off early.

And leave a 5yr old standing alone crying outside the locked school gates at 7am!!

This isn't a problem I personally face as my work are cool(ish) about it, but leaving half an hour earlier certainly isn't an option.

As for getting the bus to work... it would be only a matter of days before I had a genuine "Falling Down" moment..

[HannahSE23]

Honor Oak Park, Brockley, Ladywell - cheaper housing AND better transport links. Ladywell goes direct to London Bridge, Waterloo East and Charing Cross. Admittedly the areas aren't as smart as ED but imagine that's only a matter of time...

[LJC56]

DulwichLondoner Wrote:

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> What is idiotic is giving priority to a private

> form of transport, which can only be used by a

> minority of the population, over public transport

> (like busses), which can be used by everyone. All

> the more so because cycle lanes are used much less

> in the winter, when it rains, and outside of the

> 8-9am / 5-6.30pm commuting times: outside of those

> times, I see semi-empty cycle lanes, and

> incredibly congested public roads. Bus lanes have

> been removed all over London to make way for these

> cycle lanes; getting by bus to Vauxhall now takes

> forever thanks to this enlightened decision,

> because busses no longer have their own lane for a

> significant part of the journey.

>

I've spent the last year commuting to Vauxhall by bus from East Dulwich and it is often quick and reliable. I don't understand the comment about the segregated cycle lanes causing congestion as these cover just a small part of the journey for the Oval to Vauxhall - where I have occasionally got off and walked from the Oval (it's not far). The real problem with buses to Vauxhall and Victoria is the lack of a bus lane in the first part of the Camberwell New Road. Extending the bus lane back to Camberwell would make a real difference but presumably would impede cars too much.....

[BrandNewGuy]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> BrandNewGuy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> As for getting the bus to work... it would be only

> a matter of days before I had a genuine "Falling

> Down" moment..

I'm a grumpy middle-aged man and I can grab the 40 to London Bridge (and back) if necessary without going into meltdown. I could start a support group :-)

[healey]

Going directly north to the West End (where I work) is a real pain. Other options are mostly okay when things are running properly. That's why the Bakerloo was originally meant to go to Camberwell.

Still love it here though. IMHO the are few places better in the whole of London than this area.

[rendelharris]

LJC56 Wrote:

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> I've spent the last year commuting to Vauxhall by

> bus from East Dulwich and it is often quick and

> reliable. I don't understand the comment about the

> segregated cycle lanes causing congestion as these

> cover just a small part of the journey for the

> Oval to Vauxhall - where I have occasionally got

> off and walked from the Oval (it's not far). The

> real problem with buses to Vauxhall and Victoria

> is the lack of a bus lane in the first part of the

> Camberwell New Road. Extending the bus lane back

> to Camberwell would make a real difference but

> presumably would impede cars too much.....

Thank you, it's nice to see some people can see the actual evidence instead of what they want to see! From Peckham to Vauxhall is 2.8 miles up the invariably jammed Camberwell New Road: the segregated cycle lane runs for 0.3 of a mile from Archbishop Tenison's School to Vauxhall Cross. Two things to note there: one is that motor vehicles still have two full lanes of traffic going one way there, so there could be a bus lane if wanted, the other is that I can confidently say, having worked at ATS for many years, that that stretch of road was always badly jammed before they built the cycle lane, in fact if anything it's less jammed now than it was ten years ago. But that won't stop some people seeing a cycle lane and immediately starting to froth that it must be the cause of the congestion - not, apparently, the motorised vehicles causing the congestion!

Despite the claims by the Daily Mail and certain rather similar people on here that segregated cycle lanes are "all over London," less than 2% of roads in central London have lanes (and incidentally they've encouraged an explosion in cycling which can only be good for air quality, the health service, etc etc etc). Traffic congestion in London is caused by motor vehicles, and it's about time some people faced up to that and accepted that something needs to be done about it instead of whining about a few miles of cycle tracks.

[Giacomelli]

We lived near dulwich library and while I loved the area commuting to central London (green park) took an age if you didn't get the 185 early enough in morning before traffic got bad. Now live between Sydenham and lower Sydenham station (south eastern) and although further out commute is 15 mins faster and much more reliable.

We were in a bit of a no man's land though being roughly 1 mile from dulwich, Peckham, forest hill and honour oak stations! With my commute now, I now realise that when I lived in east dulwich I should have back tracked to forest hill to get overground.

Not blaming bikes for traffic. But not everyone is able to cycle to work... not all work places have facilities showers etc.

[Louisa]

Knew this sort of thread was inevitable on here. Was always baffled as to why so many people wanted to come here? I presume it was proximity to Clapham in terms of affordablity 10/15 years ago that sparked it all off. Transport links have always been shocking, if it were not for inflated property prices on the SW London tube network, I really can't imagine ED ever having picked up.

Brockley/Honor Oak Park and Forest Hill all better housing stock, better connections and still quite a bit cheaper than here.

Louisa.