Honour the Covenant

[Marmora Man]

The British Legion has just established a new campaign to encourage us all to "Honour the Covenant".

For those that haven't heard of the concept it's all about recognising that the UK asks a lot of its servicemen / women. In return the country should look after them if they are injured or hurt in the course of their service. We used to have dedicated military hospitals - where wounded servicemen could be treated in the company of their colleagues by medical staff who were also Army / Navy / RAF trained. No longer - a returning wounded soldier could be treated on an NHS orthopeadic ward with only several elderly men with new hip replacements, far from his regiment, friends or family. We used to applaud our servicemen for the skill and courage with which they performed their duties - not today. I have heard of instances where soldiers just returned from Afghanistan and in uniform were asked to leave a pub becuase "the uniform might offend others".

Over 50% of London's rough sleepers are ex servicemen - whose return to civilian life has not been a success.

In some other countries servicemen are helped - given discounts in shops, cinemas or when travelling. Patted on the back for their service and commitment. Veterans were listened to and given priority on busses or in queues. All this helps our service personnel to feel pride in what they are doing and themselves - it compensates in part for the hardships they endure / have endured on our behalf.

No matter what some might think about government policies that have led to our Armed Forces operating in Iraq and Afghanistan there is no doubt that soldiers, sailors and airmen are living in appalling conditions, have inadequate equipment, lousy pay (the average private soldier takes home less than ?800.00 a month) and many are being wounded or dying in pursuance of this government's foreign policy - we voted the government in, we have, jointly, a responsibility to our service people; not just those serving today but all those who have served during their lives. Some readers may be retired service men or women themselves - many will have a grandfather, grandmother or other relative that served during WWII or later conflicts.

I urge you all to look at the website below and consider what you might personally, or corporately do for the British serviceman

Honour The Covenant

[macroban]

Many years ago I saw the original Chatham Chest and reflected that nothing much has changed in 400 years.

[Brendan]

Surely it is the government?s duty as the nation?s representatives to honour this covenant?

[lozzyloz]

I agree with you to a point MM. I believe veterans should be given due respect regardless of our political opinions re the rights and wrongs of invading Iraq and so on. However, I don't think they should be singled out as neccesarily any more deserving than many other public serving institutions like nursing, the police, fire etc. Besides we already pay for this via our taxes.

[Marmora Man]

Brendan & lozzyloz,

It is difficult to express exactly what I mean - I agree nursing, police and fire all are fine organisations that, in general, do enjoy strong public support. For some reason the Armed Forces are less visible - perhaps because fewer people have experience of the forces.

While the government of the day pays servicemen's salaries - the covenant should extend beyond just pay and conditions. Governments tend to support what the public supports and the British Legion's campaign seeks to build greater support.

There is a phrase "we sleep safe because other men guard our walls". The covenant is the deal between those of us sleeping safe and those who are doing the guarding.

I have been lucky enough to meet many veterans - a Wellington Bomber navigator who parachuted out of a burning plane to spend three years in POW camp, a sailor who lugged a live bomb, on his chest, from beneath a submarine casing - aware that at any moment the submarine might dive (he won the VC), a young Royal Marine who has, in the last 5 years been at the forefront of the Iraq invasion and served two tours in Afghanistan. In every instance they insisted they have done nothing extraordinary - all are interesting, articulate and proud of their service careers, but disappointed that their wounded colleagues, families and widows are today not given the sort of support they had in previous days.

Somehow British society, as a whole, does not give the Armed Forces the respect or support I feel they deserve. It has ever been thus - but the British Legion's campaign seeks to change that.

Tommy - Rudyard Kipling

Honour The Covenant

[macroban]

A first step for East Dulwich might be a greater attendance at our War Memorial on 11 November this year.

[Marmora Man]

macroban Wrote:

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> A first step for East Dulwich might be a greater

> attendance at our War Memorial on 11 November this

> year.

Agree - a great idea. Regrettably I will unable to attend - but will be at another Remembrance Day service at my son's school where he will be playing the Last Post.

Do the local SCouts, Guides, Boy's Brigade attend these days?

[Keef]

People may think I'm a total bastard for this, but to be honest, they get paid for their job, and it should be the duty of the forces to help them settle back in to civilian life.

Problem a lot of the time (and this is from talking to a couple of experienced army men, not just made up by me) is that lads (and increasingly lasses) are joining up at a very young age having spent their whole lives being told what to do at home and at school. They then join the forces and are told what to do there. They then come out aged 25 - 30 with no idea how to live in the real world, and do things for themselves, and it's probably a lot of these who end up on the streets.

They have often given a lot, and it's the forces that shouldn't forget them!

[Brendan]

I do believe that society has a duty of care towards ex service men and woman but we pay tribute to the state that employs them. The state should therefore give them the support they need. If anything is to be done it should be lobbying government to fulfill their duties. This is very much what the British Legion do.

I think many people these days cannot identify with organisations like it though because the credibility of the armed forces has been damaged, and understandably so.

The idea of people taking up arms to defend their way of life is fondly accepted by people and was the view that people had of the armed forces after the wars in the 20th century. The idea of a professional army employed and used as a political tool by a state that is increasingly less accountable to its people holds less credibility.

None the less these people were employed and therefore should be given the support that the nature of their employment warrants.

On Remembrance Day let?s remember the dead as a warning not to let it happen again rather than to glorify war. (at the risk of sounding like a hippy)

[Marmora Man]

The problem with the idea that the forces themselves should support the serviceman and servicewoman is that they are not properly funded to do the core job; Land Rovers instead of armoured vehicles (hence more wounded / killed), desert boots that melt, radios that don't work. As a result they are not funded to look after retired service personnel.

The aim of the British Legion - and my postings - is to raise awareness of the issues, encourage the general population to think more about them and to lobby those who can make change happen, particularly politicians.

The "Covenant" request is:

The Royal British Legion is calling on Government to honour its life-long duty of care to those making a unique commitment to their country.

We believe:

1. There should be a just compensation scheme which recognises the commitment and sacrifices made when serving the Nation.

The Government should:

A. Substantially increase the value of awards made under the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme.

B. Recognise that Armed Forces personnel should not have to fight the State to prove that their injury or illness was due to Service ? the State should shoulder the burden of proof.

C. Recognise that valid claims for compensation can arise long after injury or illness and so dispense with its five and 10 years cut-off dates for making claims.

2. There should be a greater commitment to support the physical and mental health of Service people and their families.

For Armed Forces personnel, the Government should:

A. Ensure that GPs and other NHS staff can access the medical histories of personnel who have been medically discharged.

B. Meet the cost of accommodating the families of injured Service personnel.

C. Extend in-depth health surveillance to all Service personnel ? and offer voluntary health monitoring for Service families of personnel on active deployment.

For Veterans, the Government should:

A. Ensure there is immediate access to healthcare for War Pensioners making priority treatment work not just in theory but in reality.

B. Identify the number of veterans who are eligible for priority treatment and provide the resources needed to deliver it.

C. Urgently increase the provision of mental health services for veterans, and deliver priority treatment in this area.

3. There should be more support for bereaved Service families.

The Government should:

A. Provide additional resources to coroners experienced in conducting military inquests in order to clear the backlog of Service inquests and to enable the establishment of a ?centre of excellence?.

B. At public expense, provide Service families with legal advice, representation and advocacy during inquests.

C. Appoint an independent commissioner to investigate complaints relating to in-Service deaths.

I plan to be at the drinks on Friday and would be happy to continue this discussion - I think it is a very important topic. The government, with our tacit support (we didn't vote them out) has repeatedly sent our armed forces into danger but has not provided properly for their care on return. In fact it has actively dismantled some of the support services that were in place 10 years ago.

[macroban]

I'm interested in restoring the East Dulwich War Memorial, but living flesh and blood is more important than a lump of stone.

Last year I couldn't find a place to buy my Poppy in the New East Dulwich. I got mine at London Bridge.

[Marmora Man]

Macroban,

I think the two points you make go together. I will be selling poppies this year - not sure where yet. Restoring the War Memorial would be an action that marked local support for Armed Forces and could create a nucleus of people prepared to engage with the British Legion's campaign.

[Brendan]

Try the library Macroban.

[Keef]

CPT have always had poppies, as has Harry's the newsagent on Underhill, by the chip shop.

[TillieTrotter]

As does the Dog in the village.

[macroban]

An interesting social experiment for the East Dulwich Forum.

Will the "Trick or Treat" thread generate more interest than the "Remembrance Sunday" thread.

[*Bob*]

I think we all know the answer to that one already, Macroban.

[Ultraconsultancy]

If I weren't going to either the Guards Memorial or the London Scottish I'd be there.

Britain's treatment of it's retired soldiers, and widows too, denigrates us all. The freedom you have to shrug and walk away was hard fought, and hard won, with the lives of such men and women.

And i'm afraid to tell you that a soldier who loses a leg to a land-mine has not been "paid for the job". Far from it.

Ultraconsultancy

[Jah Lush]

What he said.

And...You hear about the Falklands veterans and shabby way they have been treated but what about the soldiers who have fought in Iraq and Afganistan? Both of which my nephew has fought in and thankfully he is okay but is it not possible that at some time in the near future he and many others who have fought for their country could suffer from some sort of post stress disorder reliving nightmares that they have seen in battle? These people with mental as well as physical injuries need to be looked after.

[Marmora Man]

I'm pleased to see this thread resurrected. The topic is important to me and the more the idea can be brought to the fore that our service people have suffered and are suffering and are, as a result, deserving of our support.

Jointly our Armed Forces have seen more action in the last 10 years than the previous 50. In last 5 years well over 300 dead and probably 10 times that wounded, many severely.

Regardless of political persuasion these individuals deserve our respect and attention. They are not the Government's problem - just because we pay taxes does not mean we should pass by on the other side.

Poppy Day is about remembrance and support - it does not glorify war, on the contrary it brings home the stark cost of war.

[Jah Lush]

Marmora Man Wrote:

>

> Poppy Day is about remembrance and support - it

> does not glorify war, on the contrary it brings

> home the stark cost of war.

Exactly, and that's why I am always proud to wear a poppy with pride.

[*Bob*]

Ultraconsultancy Wrote:

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The freedom you

> have to shrug and walk away was hard fought, and

> hard won, with the lives of such men and women.

We hear this a lot (it's one of the old staples) and I'm afraid I just don't think it helps with the problems of disinterest on the part of the younger generation. I asked both my Grandads about their service and I can report that neither of them marched off to war to free the world (and future generations) from tyranny.

It ought to be possible to separate out the (often) disgraceful treatment of ex-servicemen from the cries of 'they did it for you' aimed at children growing-up half a century later - whom it means very little to.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Not sure I agree with you Bob. Whether they volunteered or were conscripted it still amounts to a sacrifice by them and the families who sent them (whether actual death or just the hardships of war) which I don't think should be forgotten. It's easy 60 years down the line to be complacent which is why I think an annual remembrance is a good idea.

And of course it is not only WWs I & II. I once worked with an amazing man who served with the Green Jackets in Borneo and lost his leg after stepping on a landmine. He still visits servicemen today who are similarly injured, to encourage them to lead a full and rewarding life which is not easy when you think your country doesn't give a damn.

[Ultraconsultancy]

Bob - I grew up in a military family, and went to a military boarding school; I sat down to eat every day with boys whose fathers had been killed on active duty; I was taught many of the truths in life by men who had fought in the second world war; I did a lot of voluntary work at Erskine Hospital, where there were still some old boys who had been in the trenches in the first.

If my sense of unconditional respect for such men doesn't help, I'll live with that. God knows it's helped me for my entire life.

[mockney piers]

I'm not sure anyone's disagreeing here, Bob was just making a pretty valid point about the framing it as 'they fought for our freedom' as a little unhelpful and misleading in trying to engage the youngsters today.

My heritage is from a different war altogether, one fought from '36-'39, where they really did voluntarily take up the banner of freedom and equality, and sadly for their part, they lost. That doesn't make their effort and sacrifice any less awesome in my book.

I'll be wearing a poppy for the servicemen of Britain, and will spare a wider thought on that day.