Violent Mugging in East Dulwich (March 2nd 2017)

[KidKruger]

the only thing you can do is carry a tool.

no one else is gonna look after you obviously.

it's a shame, but lambs to the slaughter is not a reasonable solution.

[JohnL]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> the only thing you can do is carry a tool.

> no one else is gonna look after you obviously.

> it's a shame, but lambs to the slaughter is not a

> reasonable solution.

When I was young I'd seek someone out with the gravitas to

help take revenge - and I'm amazed how many of my friendships

started like that - I never ever told them of course (remember

when we bumped into each other, well .....)

and revenge never happened.

Edit: (I just realised I described forming a gang :) )

[rendelharris]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> the only thing you can do is carry a tool.

> no one else is gonna look after you obviously.

> it's a shame, but lambs to the slaughter is not a

> reasonable solution.

Unfortunately, though I can understand the urge, when set upon by four of the cowards any weapon is just going to end up used against you and the outcome will almost certainly be worse. A very loud rape alarm, for men as well as women, might help...

[Earl Aelfheah]

Really sorry to hear about that Andrew. Sounds terrifying. Hope you're getting the necessary support and that the shits who did this get caught soon.

[geobz]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> KidKruger Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > the only thing you can do is carry a tool.

> > no one else is gonna look after you obviously.

> > it's a shame, but lambs to the slaughter is not

> a

> > reasonable solution.

>

> Unfortunately, though I can understand the urge,

> when set upon by four of the cowards any weapon is

> just going to end up used against you and the

> outcome will almost certainly be worse. A very

> loud rape alarm, for men as well as women, might

> help...

Ye noone should try and do anything against 4 guys unless he has the expertise to do I'd suggest.

Again back to my point, is there anything we can do as a community to urge to police to wake up and do something? I mean having the police saying to you "we cant do anything", "dont go out at night", "be extra vigilant" and the amazing signs they have on LL saying "Thieves be aware water marks on items" is just bizarre.

I think the police and especially the local police that is non existent has lost the plot. Their job is to prevent crimes from happening, not just come in on a call after the crime took place to investigate.

I walk at nights and haven't seen any patrol cars AT ALL! Get all those people sitting on the precinct patrolling the areas and problem solved.

[poppet27]

This is terrible Andrew, I'm so sorry this happened to you. You must have been terrified.

I don't agree at all with Kid Kruger. You've done the right thing letting the community know, and it's up to us to spread the safety word. You/we could drop in to your local councillor or MP's surgery too.

[peckham_ryu]

Nasty business. Thank you for taking the time to warn us about this violent, cowardly little gang of thugs.

Hope you're back to full health, and best of luck for the end of your studies.

[dbboy]

Andrew, so sorry to hear about your horrible incident and well done for taking the time to tell everyone. I hope you make a speedy recovery and get your belongings back. Take care.

These thugs need to be caught and dealt with by the Authorities.

[intexasatthe moment]

***it was a large red and black rucksack, a small camping style design. If a anyone has seen it anywhere PLEASE message me- I have university work in there that it invaluable to me right now as I'm in my third and final year.***

A lot of people have viewed and posted on this thread .

As others have said how articulate and objective the OP is .Anyway ..I was thinking we should all scour our surroundings in case the bag and any contents have been disgarded .

If it were the same person attacking the others mentioned maybe the locationof the third attack would give an idea of the route taken and possible area where bag may have been disposed of .

"While I was being treated the paramedics/nurses then received another call to tell them that a THIRD person had been violently assaulted and was coming in to be treated"

Hope you're doing ok Andrew .

[Fwomble]

Andrew so sorry to hear your horrible experience. Sending you positive vibes to recover asap and not let it upset you too much xx

[Sue]

Appalled and sorry to read this.

Hope you heal quickly physically and mentally and are getting good support.

Also really hope your bag turns up.

Hope the police catch these people. Would there be any DNA evidence?

[edcam]

Crikey, I hope you're ok Andrew. Thank you for sharing this awful experience. I wish you well.

[MCMC]

Andrew

So sorry to hear this happened to you, what a terrible experience. The same thing happened to me when I was near your age, when I was mugged on a train at knifepoint and it takes a long while to process and will probably affect you for a while. Make sure you get some help if you need it mentally.

The thing to bear in mind is that you could have been anyone and ultimately you'll get back on your feet and go somewhere in your life whereas these people will only end up getting caught and going to prison. Maybe not tomorrow but they have chosen a crap future and you are studying, working hard and you'll be OK my friend.

Hope they get caught soon!

PEACE

Michael

[adonirum]

lameduck Wrote:

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> Few years back my mum caught two males in our side

> garden attempting entry.

> I called the police from inside the house. they

> didnt know I was there.

> police came really fast must have been round the

> corner.

> One of the men came from Court Lane cant remember

> the other

> Scumbags can come from anywhere.

> Take care John dont leave yourself vunerable

> Lynne

You never know who is living amongst you....

Gerald Wilson - Court Lane

Michael McAvoy - Beckwith Road

just two examples from the past.

[Henry_17]

Andrew,

That sucks.

You can come back stronger from this.

[treehugger]

So very sorry to hear this awful story, Andrew. Thank you for warning us to be vigilant. I hope you get over this trauma and that you are able to finish your studies successfully. Peace and love.

[robbin]

KK - Apart from possibly being illegal, carrying a 'tool' is far more likely to result in you getting killed or seriously hurt. If it's 4 people and its fast moving with shock tactics like this was (which is how it often is - it was when I was mugged years ago) unless you are highly skilled and trained to react appropriately, you are very likely to come off far worse. It is very tempting and understandable to think you would be better off tooling up, but you really are not. You don't get time to think or prepare in a situation like this - they try to make sure of that.

Andrew, I'm so sorry this happened to you and hope the filth get caught. I was edgy when out walking at night, for quite some time after it happened to me, but it does pass, as does the anger and resentment. I found it makes it easier to remember that they are losers and live what must be miserable lives, most likely with no future, while you are so much better and your future will be full of good things they will never experience. They are also cowards, probably with very low self esteem - there's a reason they only attack people in a pack and by surprise - let's face it, 4 to 1 is hardly tough or brave on their part.

[KidKruger]

These guys aren't interested in showing how tough they are, they just want your stuff and have more chance of getting it if they out number you and can get away without being caught. So they're being practical, this doesn't mean they're cowards. It's not like one of them alone is going to rob a group of three men, just so he doesn't look cowardly !

You may well find that one of them on his own could still do the job just as well, they use numbers because it's better certainty and they do multiple robberies because the spoils have to be shared amongst more people.

Speculation over whether they are losers or not and what they'll experience in the rest of their lives is absolutely pointless. Who cares. Not everybody feels good knowing someone else doesn't have the options open to themselves, and anyway that's scant consolation for being robbed !

[JohnL]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> These guys aren't interested in showing how tough

> they are, they just want your stuff and have more

> chance of getting it if they out number you and

> can get away without being caught. So they're

> being practical, this doesn't mean they're

> cowards. It's not like one of them alone is going

> to rob a group of three men, just so he doesn't

> look cowardly !

Mugging is inherently cowardly IMHO, it needs the same

sort of stigma as sex crime - with the criminals - not

as bad of course but it's down there.

[robbin]

KK - sounds like you have never been attacked and robbed by a gang. All I can say is those thoughts helped me to feel better. You can analyse it in the cold light of day if you want, but it made me feel better to think the gang that attacked me were a bunch of losers. When I saw their previous and time spent in prison for other crimes, it was pretty clear they were indeed losers.

Just my opinion and experience though. Btw I never said they were interested in showing how tough they are.

Not sure how you think a group of 4 people attacking one person is not inherently cowardly, but you are entitled to your opinion.

Anyway, this thread is about Andrew, I hope he finds relief in whatever way works for him and I hope this lot get caught before there are many more victims in our neighbourhood.

[KidKruger]

robbin, I've unfortunately had various skirmishes of that nature so I'm not entirely blind to what it feels like (though my maximum is 3 on 1, with knives, and yes I was stabbed - but so were they). I've also come out on the losing end of other situations. I know how helpless you can feel - nearest I can describe it is the words of Down In The Tube Station At Midnight which for me summarises the feeling perfectly.

All I'm saying is that cowardice doesn't come into it IMO. There's no concept of fair from the onset, that's never part of the proposition with mugging. It's just a procedure which has to succeed from the muggers' perspective. People can call them cowards if that helps, I guess.

Yes this thread is about Andrew, who I hope doesn't let this nasty experience alter his social behaviour too much and heals well from the blows he took.

[Lowlander]

Hmm. I was mugged back in the 1980s up north. Luckily just m pride and a few scratches. Took me a while to get over it as I knew the attackers. Didn't report it (as I knew them) and no support in those days.

One thing I was told years later (by an ex-army martial arts chap) was: curl up and don't fight back. Unless you have a firearm and let's not go there.

KK, I see where you're coming from; but for the everyday person walking home late a few times a year, carrying a tool isn't going to help and is likely to make things worse. Especially if they have no idea how to use it.

[rendelharris]

Lowlander Wrote:

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> One thing I was told years later (by an ex-army

> martial arts chap) was: curl up and don't fight

> back.

I was told the same by several policemen with whom I used to play rugby - and they certainly weren't wimpy soft on crime types! They used to say that it's only in the movies that one beats two or more, in any normal matchup you're simply not going to win against multiple assailants. The only advice they added is if possible go down with your back to a wall when you curl up - knees and elbows will protect your front, try to keep kidneys, spleen and back of the head out of the way.

[geobz]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> Lowlander Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > One thing I was told years later (by an ex-army

> > martial arts chap) was: curl up and don't fight

> > back.

>

> I was told the same by several policemen with whom

> I used to play rugby - and they certainly weren't

> wimpy soft on crime types! They used to say that

> it's only in the movies that one beats two or

> more, in any normal matchup you're simply not

> going to win against multiple assailants. The

> only advice they added is if possible go down with

> your back to a wall when you curl up - knees and

> elbows will protect your front, try to keep

> kidneys, spleen and back of the head out of the

> way.

Thats just not true. Period.

But ye for a normal person, best thing to do is not to fight back, unless you feel like your life is worth an iphone.

A good idea would be, in case you heard them coming on the pavement before and you got suspicious to go and start ringing doorbells like crazy, wake up the neighborhood, they might get scared and leave once they see you waking up people.

[JohnL]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Lowlander Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > One thing I was told years later (by an ex-army

> > martial arts chap) was: curl up and don't fight

> > back.

>

> I was told the same by several policemen with whom

> I used to play rugby - and they certainly weren't

> wimpy soft on crime types! They used to say that

> it's only in the movies that one beats two or

> more, in any normal matchup you're simply not

> going to win against multiple assailants. The

> only advice they added is if possible go down with

> your back to a wall when you curl up - knees and

> elbows will protect your front, try to keep

> kidneys, spleen and back of the head out of the

> way.

My Karate instructor said hit the biggest one so hard the rest run.

I just use my mouth .. and not to bite - it's my only defense :)

I will say if you listen to rap - it talks about gang fights and drugs and shooting

but never ever about stealing an iphone from a boy wheeling his bike home - it's

not glamorous and it's not something that will turn the head of older boys.