Parenting and self esteem; thoughts?

[pebbles]

Thanks Pickle, see you Tuesday xxx

[Belle]

aw Pebbles - my little boy doesn't have chicken pox or I'd have gladly answered your post, and nearly did to say just that, thought it was a good idea. I hope when it's our turn there are people to do poxy play dates with!

[pebbles]

Thanks everyone, what would we do without this forum :)

Back to self esteem and the fact that a night out does wonders .... I was out last night to watch a school friend of mine in http://wwwp.la-soiree.com/. She's a trapeze artist/does amazing things climbing up ropes and swinging on ribbons! - one of the best nights out i've had in ages. Laughed and laughed and laughed (and drank a fair bit). If anyone is wanting a night out where they can dress up if they want but don't need to i really really recommend it.

[Ruth_Baldock]

I'd meet up if seb had the pox!

I feel the same about the forum meetups- I have been to a few and alwyas enjoy myself but I'm always so anxious and nervous, it's terrible! Must get over myself...

The other week, I emailed a v good mummy friend a photo of how i used to dress which was taken about 6 weeks before I became pregnant and she was astounded, couldn't believe it was me! I used to be a size zero, had a very short, high maintence hairdo and hung around shoreditch/spitalfields all the time! I even modelled for super super and id magazine once or twice. I also said I'd never wear jeggings. Well, I'm wearing my beloved stretchy denim for the 4th day this week and just scoffed 5 Jaffa cakes for brekkie...

[clux]

Sally

Scroll back up to see my earlier post - you're fab and instantly very likeable!

[poppy]

Ruth, I didn't know you before gorgeous baby baldock but I always think you look really cool now! Always love the flower-in-your-hair thing you have going on. As you may have guessed from my Boden-esque appearance I've never been cool enough to model for id (never even heard of super super)! But maybe such pre-baby antics have resulted in particularly high standards for judging your own coolness now?! ;) You always look great!!!

[poppy]

Just realised a big irony - had edited above post to remove potentially bumbling and foolish sounding comments, not once but twice, about a thread on feeling bumbling and foolish. THEN sat ruminating for a minute on how everyone seems to just post witty and articulate comments without making edits...argh, why are we all so tough on ourselves?!

oh dear, edited again to reword for clarity...I can't help myself!!

[nunheadmum]

I had to smile on the train this morning.....a very made up girl with perfect hair and great clothes, on way to Spitalfields, sporting a proud 'Baby on Board' badge. Thinking of this thread, I did wonder what she had in her head about life after the baby and what the reality would be.

Personally I wasn't very good on the social front before the kids but now I REALLY struggle socialising with folk without kids. And that's even with working 3 days a week in the real world. I just feel like I know nothing about what goes on in the world beyond cbeebies and kids. It's not been too bad as I've worked at the same place since before I had the kids but now I'm facing looking for a new job, I'm dreading the prospect of having to re-establish myself in a new environment.

[Ko]

these days i'm happy not to have to go out in the evenings as i can't face a late night and being tired the next day and having to look after baby ko!!!

a few weeks ago our friends were having some evening drinks. we thought one of us should at least show our face, but mr ko and i BOTH wanted to stay in and babysit and let the other one go out - we were both too tired to want to traipse into town and then have a hangover the next day! anyway i won and got to stay in with baby ko! how sad is that?!

i've been to one forum mummies meet up and it was lovely, nice to meet people in the same boat. no one struck me as boring! i wouldn't ever swap my life for my pre-baby life. but it is repetitive some days and life has less spontaneity.

[The Nappy Lady]

I remember when my first daughter was about a month old walking her around the park and seeing other Mum's sitting together with their little ones and feeling SO lonely. I realised I needed to make some friends and fast, and was really lucky to meet a great group of girls via the Townley Road Clinic parenting sessions. Looking back I don't know what I'd have done without them, and still keep in touch with a fair few of them even now 6 years on. I know from discussions we've had since then that they thought I was massively confident, which I really didn't feel at the time, and actually I felt quite intimidated by some of them, so I suspect it is a fairly common to experience these self doubts, especially when you are thrown into the 'new world order' that comes along with a newborn baby.

Facebook is the thing that has really made me realise how 'small' my world is these days. It is hard to think what to post other than stuff to do with my girls. I've thrown myself into being a Mum so completely, and between that and work there isn't really any space, or energy in my life to do other stuff. I'm always up for the EDF Family Room Drinks, but when it comes to it I am just to tired to go sometimes.

I think what I hate most these days is that I very rarely feel that I am totally on top of anything. I'm juggling so many balls, I sort of run the home, but it could be cleaner, the meals I prepare could be better & more varied, the girls could be played with more/read to more/helped with school work more. I always seem to be late for everything.......it seems to be a case of just scraping by mostly rather than doing a really good job of anything. I try to turn this around and congratulate myself on all the stuff I AM getting done, but when tired, full of a head cold (as I am right now), or harrassed it is hard to put a positive spin on things!

Thank goodness though for good friends, and this Family Room, both of whom remind me that all this is normal, and that very few parents feel any different.

[Ruth_Baldock]

How funny, I always love what you're wearing poppy! You always have lovely classic and well thought outits! I think my hair flowers must be a bit of a trademark; I had a big purple orchid in when I had my nuchal scan and when I ha my 20 wk scan, the scan, erm, person recognized me from the same hair thing!

I suspect you're right- i've gone from one extreme lifestyle to another- total poles apart. Saying that, me and mr baldock went away to shoreditch house recentu and went out in east London and I was so bored. Me and husband Spent most of the time shouting over terrible swedish house music about seb and whther he'd do lots of poos whilst his mum looked after him for the weekend!

It also sort of reminds me of that new drama Which is soon to be broadcast; "any human heart". Part of Jim broadbents narrative outlines that you'll exhaura yourself trying to be the same person throughout your life and "history is of little consequence as we pass through life" and it's absolutely spot on!

Apologies for typos, ob the iPhone as always!

[Gussy]

What a heart-warming read ladies.

I don't think anything prepares you for the changes you face when you have kids. This sounds awful but when I see a pregnant lady who is pregnant with her first and she has that 'no-idea everything is wonderful' look on her face I kind of feel sorry for her. And, nobody can tell you what it will be like, you have to learn first hand. My friend who I see occasionally was pregnant (she's now had her baby) and said 'How about we go to Ibiza with the kids next year'. I looked at her and smiled sweetly and said, 'lets talk about this in 3 months time'. Needless to say she's not mentioned it since....

Maybe there are some lucky people out there with an amazing support network of family and friends and they get time to regularly 'be themselves' again, and/or they have easy pregnancies, births and babies who sleep etc. Great for them, but most of us seem to be catapulted into a very lonely, hard time of learning on the job with no family nearby or mums to ask about how you get poo out of the carpet etc etc.

I'm not really sure if my self-esteem has changed, I'm just as chatty with people, maybe even more so as kids provide so much common ground for starting a conversation. Ok so maybe now I'm talking to old ladies and post office counter ladies A LOT MORE than I would have :) However, I just don't care about city folk and their jobs, I don't really miss my job, I think about my old life and yes I miss going out, going to Ibiza each year, talking to friends, going for lunches, dinners and pubs on sunday without a care for the time or work on Monday.....but when I hear about my old friends still doing all this after 10 years and splitting up with their boyfriends and looking for the 'right' person and all that drama, I feel a bit sorry for them. I love my family and I actually feel a bit above them now. Not in an arrogant way, just in a moved on way.

That doesn't mean however that I don't HATE my body (2 stone overweight) and wish I had more friends (often feel lonely, especially moving here and not knowing anyone......and failing quite miserably to make friends despite going to groups most days...). I say a little thing to the kids when we go into groups 'let's see if mummy can try not to be the only person sat on her own this week'. I do look at other mums who are well dressed and in groups all laughing and feel envious, but then I look at my kids and think 'o well' on with another day.....I also have in the back of my mind that I WILL BE BACK. Not yet, and maybe it will take a few more years, like when the kids are at school? but my god I will be back with a vengeance. Who's with me?! COME ON LADIES!

[pebbles]

Thank you Clux and everyone else for being lovely about me - has really put a huge smile on my face :)

Gussy - so true, it always seems that everyone else are always in groups and i'm on my own!!!

Question - has anyone ever been appraoched by a mum saying "hi, can i join you?" - i'd take my hat off to people like that, good on them :)

Anyway, i'd better turn the tv off now and entertain my biggest munchkin :) - well maybe just one more episode :)

[helibell]

omg have just read this thread with a chuckle & a tear in my eye. I feel like I want to respond properly but I can't just now, I'm trying to dash off another few sentences of a chapter of my phd thesis before jumping on my bike, cycling like fury up dog kennel hill, loading 2 children (3 and nearly 1) front and back, and then trying to cycle very carefully home. Probably with skirt tucked in my knickers & food on my face. Please give me a wave if you see me & I will post properly later...

[littleEDfamily]

I just love it when I hear about other mums occasionally getting hammered. A night out and a good chin wag with mates is sooo good for the soul. Some funny ladies on here.

[Smiler]

Great thread - am with Gussy - I [the "true" me and not the zombie marshmallow-woman bovine hag I feel like now] will be back"! And hopefully before I'm 90!

[helibell]

-

[littleEDfamily]

helibell, enjoyed reading your thoughtful post. i was thinking about this sort of thing the other day and thought about how our generation of women have been stitched up a kipper thinking we our lives wolud be free of the tedium and grind that is simply unavoidable if you go down the kids route. i am so grateful to the women's movement for the choices we now have, however a by-product of all that progressiveness, for me anyway, has been that i got tricked into thinking i could have a thoroughly glamourous life, free of the exhaustion, irritation and boredom that sometimes (often!) comes with having small children. with my first daughter, i experienced no end of frustration trying to keep up my 'previous life', but now with 2, i have just decided to embrace where I am now, and put in the 'glamour' where I can - things like fabulous home cooked meals.

I get a great deal of comfort talking to women of my mother's generation about their experiences. I was having a rally tough day the other day and a lovely women of a certain age in a cafe seemed to look through into my soul and said 'it is all worth it', and I said 'really, is it, do you promise?' - she smiled and said 'oh, yes and you are doing a great job'. It was just what I needed.

[pebbles]

helibel - i just wanted to write and say what a wonderfully honest post yours was. thank you for sharing

littleEDfamily - what a wonderful lady to tell you that, i hope i meet her sometime soon :)

[sillywoman]

Oh you lovely, lovely women. I just want to gather you all into a big warm room and feed you chocolate cake & tell you how fab you are and how it will all be worth it because you're all doing such a great job.

Self esteem is a complete bummer if you've had kids and you're doing a good job with them. Partly because what constitutes a 'good job' of being a Mum actually mostly requires quite a lot of self denial along with the sheer drudgery that we all know and recognise (how many times a day do you wipe something?), plus the juggling and 'never feeling able to do anything properly' that Molly mentioned. Not qualities which are recognised and/or valued by our wider society at all. Hence Motherhood is something of a sub-culture in our society as a whole. How many of us had any idea there was this whole busy vibrant life of baby/toddler groups, parks, cafe's & soft play area's out there when we were working girls. It all happens in working hours and is done & dusted & packed away by the time the 'workers' (hmm - like we're not?) get off the train in the evening.

The parenting world that is sold to us as young women growing up is that of the glossy magazine or TV ad; beautiful clean children or kids are only ever messy in a cute, someone else will clean it up, way, who always sleep through the night; a a handsome husband who is never tired/ grumpy/ distracted; friendly, unchallenging grandparents who will be on hand to take your children so you can "invest in your marriage"*, and never any money/ health/ education worries. Real life Mothering - nothing like we imagined or were told about, well maybe in occasional flashes is so much more disheartening and tiring. I think most women with small children have experienced the loneliness and loss of self that sets in soon after the birth of baby number 1, and as you say Molly we are all looking at each other thinking everyone else is so together and wondering why we're not. Maybe we should have an ED codeword so that if you're at a toddler group and feeling nervous and alone (Gussy, my heart broke for you when I read your post) you can say something innocuous like "do you like biscuits" or something and any Mum reading this forum will recognise it as code for, " help, talk to me before I go bonkers".

It does get better, you are doing a brilliant job of it & you will 'come back', but be warned it will be a different, stronger and wiser you. Motherhood is hard work but it sure trains you to cut through the crap. YOu lovely women are fab - maybe we should have badges so we can recognise each other in the street & give a nod, or smile of support/ sistehood. Yay the EDMummies.

*A post from littelEDfamily (I think?) on the Grandparents thread.

[Ruth_Baldock]

Helibel, loved your frank and honest post- thankyou for writing it and sharing so openly.

Was at Bluewater today (where else would I be on a boring sunday? am v predictible...) and I saw lots of pregnant ladies, enjoying (decaff) lattes, stroking their bumps, wandering around leisurely. Like another lady posted here, I thought 'You poor fool. You have NO idea...'. (In a nice way). baby baldock is in the middle of a nursing strike and it's been the lowpoint of my maternal adventure, by far.

I remember going to baby groups when he was about 4 months old and my heart would sink towards the end of the session, because I thought 'oh no, back home again'. I was crippled with lonliness, bordem and exhaustion and now know I was not the only one! I find it very difficult to go up to Mums at babygroups and say 'Can I join you?' except for if I find second or third time Mums, who seem to be even more blunt than I am, so we always have that in common. Had a lovely chat with two mums to two 3 week olds, both with older kids. Still felt awkward though, woe. I always said 'Oh i'll have more confidence when baby b can sit/crawl/walk'. Well he can do all three and I'm still nervous. OH WELL, I know I'm not alone and that I am in very good, kind and funny company with all you lovely forum ladies.

[The Nappy Lady]

Sillywoman, your post brought a tear to my eye, especially the bit about the codeword to use at baby groups (I really felt for Gussy when I read that bit in her post too....Gussy, come and join me one Friday at my local group if you like, I will talk to you).....

The irony in all this is I realise that I sit there feeling too shy to talk to the Mums I don't know at baby group, when in all likelihood they are sitting there feeling equally lonely and too shy to speak to me. What a crazy world we live in. Mind you, I rarely get to sit and talk to anyone for long these days as I have to dive after C and stop her from painting another child / trashing the carefully built block tower / stealing a toy / eating playdoh etc. etc........

[nunheadmum]

Just to demonstrate the difference between how we see ourselves v how others see us - Molly I've seen you at playgroup and always think you're one of those at the heart of the group who seems to know everyone and others gravitate to.

As Robert Burns once said (on a slightly different topic)

"O would some Power the gift to give us

To see ourselves as others see us!"

I think sometimes the problem is also that once you do talk to someone, all too often the kids take the attention of the other person and we put it down to our poor social skills, thinking 'if I'd only been more interesting, they'd have come back to speak to me' when in reality it's just how it is.

[snowboarder]

Ok I'm probably heading to st faiths playgroup or goose green swings this morning on my own....so might try to talk to strangers!! If anyone else around say hi!

[Gussy]

IT is crazy that we must be feeling the same.....can I just chuck something else into the mix? And, please don't be offended and certainly not anyone on here, but I have found since moving here that it can be a bit unfriendly at groups *ducks for cover*

While there are some self esteem issues, I am certainly not a recluse and I generally love to smile and chat to people, especially those I see week in week out at groups, but, I often get very little back. I didn't have quite the same trouble where I used to live in London (pls no quips about sending me back!). Surely a smile isn't going to break the bank?!

Also those mums already in groups seem to form an impenetrable fortress. I've experienced a mum I was chatty with 'pretending' not to see me at another group. I thought sod it, I'll approach her and went up to her to say hello and she wasn't interested in talking to me. I tried again the next week and got the same, so I gave up. Or I was trying to sit with a circle of mums, and one turned their back on me which made it impossible to 'join in'. I'm happy to keep trying but there's only so much trying one can keep up. I end up just playing with my kids, which is the main reason I go anyway.... I guess those already in groups feel like they have their circle and don't need to expand it.

I have to also agree with Molly that it doesn't help when your kids are all over the place or stealing toys or riding a bike over the baby area (toddler Gussy's favourite activity!). Thanks Molly I would love to meet you, you seem so nice from reading all your posts....(as does everyone on here). I'm off to the drs again today as toddler G has illness no.345 so if she's feeling better, I'll be back, taking on 'groups' again this week :) be lovely to meet you x

PS maybe we could all wear a badge - "EDF mum, be nice" :))