Parenting and self esteem; thoughts?

[Ruth_Baldock]

A colleague of mine (one J Wadsworth who was recently in the news re: tuiton fee cuts) was talking to me recently about my return to my studies/lecturing. He asked how I felt about it all, and I admitted to feeling totally out of the loop and freakish. He sympathised and then told me there had been research (by who or when I do not know- duuuur) that indicated that some parents, specifically Mothers, experienced a large loss of self confidence, and also found social situations really challenging after they had a baby, regardless of whether they had a 'good' birth or suffered PPD.

What do you all think? I sometimes think I am the most awkward person in the world, I can barely string a sentence together and get really nervous even asking how someone is. I normally put my foot in it, too. It wasn't always this way, I used to be as confident and charming as they came (I charmed my way into Uni through the interview process- I don't have A-Levels, only AS Levels, so certainly wasn't up to scratch academically). Now I'm lucky if I can get through a transaction at Sainos without making a massive fool out of myself.

East Dulwich Forum, I can't be the only bumbling fool(with a posh pram) out there, can I?!

[pebbles]

I too am a bumbling fool!!

Used to be life and soul (well i thought i was!!) and could talk to anyone and having had 3 1/2 years now out of the rat race unless i'm with really good friends I do find myself very awkward and not knowing what to talk about as i feel i have very little to talk about.

I've mentioned it to a few friends who have reassured me however they're the sort of friends that i've known long enough that we can talk about anything - if that makes sense.

I wouldn't swap my last 3 1/2 years for anything but i have definitely changed and sometimes i wish i could get my old va va voom back :( - to be honest i think (and i am about to be extremely honest here) it might have quite a bit to do with my weight as well. have put on a lot since having kids and i'm not comfortable about it (i know i should try harder to do something about it) but i think that's a reason for me being a bumbling fool as well :)

[snowboarder]

It's not so much that I feel in idiot in normal day to day circumstances but I do feel like I've let myself down by not going back to work immediately post baby number 1 and when people ask about what I am doing about work I do feel quite defensive and embarrased. I also have NO idea how I'm ever going to have the confidence to go back to work now as previously worked in a pretty fast moving, working all hours all encompassing environment and it feels like already after less than 2 years I am totally out of the loop and behind.

Edited to add I do also feel quite fat and frumpy and like my clothes and hair and references are all wrong when I see people I used to work with. I nearly bumped into someone from my office a while back but actually ducked into a shop and hid partly because I couldn't bear the conversation and partly because I just knew I looked dreadful!!

[Ruth_Baldock]

when people ask about what I am doing about work I do feel quite defensive and embarrased.

Looking after Baby SB IS work, bloody hard work too if he's anything like Cheeky Sebastian (which, through reading your posts, it sounds like he is...kindred naughty spirits, I think).

I was out of the loop going back to Goldsmiths (trendy art college, no one gives a toss about Monkey Music or Medela breast pumps or baby food), and choosing what I am going to even WEAR makes me feel sick. My other job, acquisitions in a library, I fell right back into. Odd. (I did keep in touch with my boss and colleagues a LOT whilst I was off though, also am v good friends with boss).

My husband said I was waddling the other day. Nearly decked him. Then he said 'No, it's okay- it's the classic Mum Waddle'. Wanted to cry, had some crisps instead...

[Ruth_Baldock]

Sb: What are you talking about?! You have lovely hair, always really well dressed and you suit your pregnancy down to the ground (looked lovely before that, too!)

I know what you mean re: references being wrong though. I picked up Heat magazine a while back and thought 'What IS this shite?!'. Had no idea about celebs or fashion or anything. Apart from baby fashion that is (Mmm, Asos for kids...)

[snowboarder]

Lovely ruth ;-)

Forget heat, even grazia doesn't do it for me these days. I bought sainsburys christmas special magazine today for the recipes.

(this was after spending 5 mins scrabling on the floor by the checkout picking up the baby crisps my child had emptied on the floor. When I got up an oldish woman looked at me (and clocked that am 6m pregnant) and said patronisingly 'he didn't want them did he?'. Yeah, he did actually, he wanted to throw them on the floor.)

[Ruth_Baldock]

Old woman-0

Sb, baby SB and in-utero SB-1

[Belle]

the whole lady gaga thing pretty much passed me by. I am good on telly references because that's what I do in non mothering time, but other than that - rubbish. Feel awful because I never know what's in the news, because I can basically only cope with sitcoms or semi decent american drama on my down time. Was pondering all this last night and fretting about not using my brain. But then I watched another episode of Cougar Town and forgot about using my brain for the time being...

[Ruth_Baldock]

X-factor passed me by this time round. Asked Husband what a 'Cher Lloyd' was and how did one get one's 'swag on'.

[Zo?]

I find this very interesting and very sad in equal measures.

I wasn't massively confident before mummyhood, but I was extremely good at pretending to be when I needed to (ex-actress!). Since I've had my daughter, however, that particular skill has deserted me, taking with it my ability to do small talk and any sense of achievement.

I'm also now beyond useless in a large group of people, whereas previously I was a happily horrendous showy-offy, centre of attention type. Now, my heart rate goes up, my mouth goes dry & I find myself desperately searching for the exit. On a long weekend away with my oldest, bestest friends a few weeks ago I was actually relieved to not be able to drink (pregnant) as it gave me the perfect excuse to be the boring one who left early.

I must admit, I just put all this down to having had PND, but it's interesting to see that this seems to happen to lots of new mums. I wonder if it affects new dads, too?

However, it's interesting that there's often a massive difference between what we see in ourselves and what others do. For instance, I've met Pebbles a few times, and every time I've thought, "Wow, I wish I could be that fun, that confident, that engaging." (And then, last week, I had to add, "God, why can't I have legs like hers?!" Honestly, they go on for miles!)

[Ruth_Baldock]

Zoe, it is sad but also comforting to know that us awkward types are not alone. I always worry that upon meeting me, people must think 'God, what a bore/weirdo!'.

I think it does happen to Dads too, my husband has to do a lot of networking (vomit) in his line of work and he has said he's so useless at it now that he hasn't bothered to make anymore buisness cards up.

I was the same as you, always the centre of attention (in a good way, of course ;) ) but now...ahem, not so much. Or not in a good way, anyway. I seem to find myself cringing at a lot of things I say/do now. I have a few friends that 'get it' though so I'm not a TOTAL freakshow.

[clux]

Pebbles,

I think I met you on one of the learn to sew workshops and you were anything but a bumbling fool. I was totally envious of how together you were, and how confident and friendly you were and I really enjoyed your company.

I on the otherhand AM a bumbling fool who has forgotten how to be myself rather than my children's mum!

[Mellors]

Having met quite a few people on this thread, I can only say that it must be a self-perception issue rather than a genuine reflection on what you are all like (honestly, a bubbly, confident, interesting lot!).

I think our self esteem goes down as we really do become different people as mothers, and, particularly if we stay at home with children, we don't have the same ways of measuring our success (money, career, people laughing at our jokes (toddlers don't count!), witty/challenging conversations etc etc).

I now find it quite hard to relate to a lot of the people I used to be very good friends with as they just don't "get" my new life, and I find theirs a bit, well, shallow to be honest. I see much more of friends who do have kids and can relate to what I am going through (and don't mind the flat shoes and snot - me, not the kids).

Having said that its really nice to be brave, head into town, wear heels, take a small handbag and pretend to be your old self - I hope that bit of me never completely dies!

Re Dads - my husbands life really hasn't changed that much since we have had the children, and I don't think he feels this way at all? (He is currently out wining and dining at some black tie function without a care in the world and will no doubt come in hammered later, whilst I am at home getting the children to bed then doing washing/ironing/cooking/birthday present wrapping for a weekend away. With his family. Harumphhhh).

[Ruth_Baldock]

Having said that its really nice to be brave, head into town, wear heels, take a small handbag and pretend to be your old self - I hope that bit of me never completely dies!

This makes me think of 'There is a light that never goes out' by The Smiths. I don't think that's QUITE what Morrisey had in mind when he wrote it though...

Thought I'd add, I bloody co-ordinate an NCT postnatal drop in. This involves speaking to/emailing lots of people and I always muck it up. I now practise what I am going to say on the phone (saddo) and write out drafts of emails and get my equally awkward husband to look them over. Still doesn't work, I am still really odd. Ah well, at least my baby thinks I am a HOOT.

[Helen GV]

I agree that the people I have met from the forum all seem so together, not odd or bumblng or awkward! Loving this thread, thanks Ruth for starting it. Have to go now and argue with my two year old about whose chair is whose in the kitchen.

Have a suspicion I will lose...

[Mellors]

Or maybe The Arctic Monkeys have it?

Used to get it in your fishnets

Now you only get it in your nightdress

Discarded all the naughty nights for niceness

Landed in a very common crisis

Everything's in order in a black hole

Nothing seems as pretty as the past though

That Bloody Mary's lacking in Tabasco

Remember when you used to be a rascal?

[radnrach]

I was just today thinking the same thing - I met up with some of my husband's friends who I usually get along with really well (pre-baby) and found my brain completely void of things to talk about. After them asking how I was, I found myself talking about breastfeeding and issues I've been having... realising they really probably don't care too much and I just sound like another mother talking about her baby all the time. But there was no getting out of it!

I also realised it's only going to get worse, as it's only been 11 weeks since finishing work, and I'm not back for at least another 6 months! Oh dear.

[Pickle]

What a great thread.

My "past life" and the life I currently live are polls apart. Some aspects of my old life remain, in that I still play my flute and perform regularly (which is great, and something that I do which is completely removed from life as a Mum), but the city commuter, power dressing, stand up in a meeting and confidently discuss all things finance girl has gone. As has the WeightWatchers leader, although every now and then I find myself helping people with that (which is fun, but not something I want to do as a job anymore).

I was the kiwi girl always up for a good night out. These days I get nervous if I'm out after dark, worry for days about what I'm going to wear if I go to a pub as I have no idea what the fashion is outside of the ED Mum's circuit, and would much rather sit and watch X Factor in the warmth of my living room on a Saturday night.

In some ways I've felt like my life as a Mum has gone in cycles. First 6 months with one child I found a breeze therefore felt quite confident. Then I got pregnant with #2, and for about a year I basically disappeared from society - combination of quite a bad pregnancy related illness, feeling rubbish, unplanned pregnancy which I really struggled to come to terms with etc.

Once I had my 2nd child I found my feet again, mainly due to a great bunch of ladies that I met through my 2nd time tea group, and the fact that I preferred to be out at playgroups rather than stuck at home with 2 children under 18 months which meant I met lots of new people. That's probably about the time I started becoming an obsessive EDF poster too!

Now my kids are older, and in the last 6 months life has changed again. I now work... just 8 hours a week... but it's something else in my life that's not kids, and is brilliant. Pathetically, at a rehearsal last night, I was really excited when someone asked me what I do;

(a) because they didn't realise I had children

(b) because I could give them an answer other than I'm a Mum

I almost find myself laughing when my bosses ask me for my opinion on something accounting related, I have to remind myself that somewhere in my brain I do have knowledge of things other than weaning, potty training, sharing toys and wiping snotty noses.

Oh, and I switched my Heat magazine subscription for a knitting magazine one. I don't know who anyone in Heat is anymore!

[new mother]

A big moment for us is WHEN WE SEE A CAT or A DOGGIE...

Does that answer the qeustion?!

[littleEDfamily]

I can relate to everything everyone has said already, but the biggest jolt to self esteem for me was realising I wasn't a perfect mother or likely to become one. There is so much 'grey' in parenting - how do you ever know you're doing the right thing, what sort of impact it's going to have on your child etc etc, that I permanently feel anxious. The world was so much more black and white pre-kids and I think that weird feeling of having lost control is a real self-esteem killer.

[Mellors]

I properly laugh out loud now when I think back to how, pre-children, I used to say " I would NEVER let my child [watch telly all the time/scream in public/eat crap" and I would NEVER [wear flat shoes/go for ages without a shower/stop reading Heat/have a naff but practical handbag]. Nowe we generally manage most of those before 8am. In fact, I never used to know much about 8am full stop....

[sb]

.

[pebbles]

oh sb i want to give you a cuddle. i have actualy said twice that i would attend the meet ups and then said that i couldn't for whatever reason - but basically at the last minute i told my husband i didn't want to go cos i was too nervous!!!

i then literally a few days ago got enough guts to ask other chicken poxed familys around to contact me, cos i knew i would have a week from hell. In all honesty i only got a few responses (and you know who you are) but it wasn't a success!!!

so....i'm hammered and thank you so much for your lovely responses.......and i want to say i would like more of a daytime social life - - so...

i'm pebbles (Sally), i have a 3 yr old boy and a 1 yr old girl

i have an old life (if that makes sense) but it would be lovely to have people that i meet regularly for tea or lunch or anythine rather than official dates????? i meet so many people but i never make the offical "hello, who are you"!!! i'm lonely to be honest so please say.... "hello"

night night

[pebbles]

morning everyone, i have a little sore head this morning and am a tad embarrassed by selling my soul late last night!!! i feel like i've been on a dating website or something!!!

[Pickle]

Awwww, Sally - such a shame that the pox meant we couldn't meet this week as planned :( I'll try to pick you out of the crowd at the meeting on Tuesday (I'm about 5'4, short mousy brown hair, kiwi accent). We can get something sorted once the boys start nursery together in Jan x