"Someone shouted 'terrorists' at a man and woman" incident this afternoon

[Mick Mac]

It may be logical, but completely unproven. Therefore it's speculation.

And legally, that's a dangerous road to tread.

[Mick Mac]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This is worse but not far away....

>

> http://www.sloughexpress.co.uk/news/slough/110937/

> man-who-shouted-terrorist-at-a-mum-and-her-young-c

> hildren-sentenced-in-court.html

>

> "Together we can stamp out this kind of behaviour

> in our communities so if you witness anyone being

> racially or religiously abused please report it to

> the police by calling 101 or visiting you local

> police station. In an emergency please dial 999.?

This clearly has a country/race angle to it alongside the terrorist comments. If you look at what Peckham Ryu said above, with this one you are moving into provable racist territory.

[pato]

ahahah..I like ppl calling it an "hate incident"..also not much surprised (@Jimi1234) that your title has been changed on here from "racist incident this afternoon" to simply "incident this afternoon"...

I am european, have been living 19 yrs in this country, never felt 100% accepted here but never have been racially attacked or insulted for being european...before brexit.

After Brexit have found myself involved in those "incidents" ..as you call them..twice! I stick by the books and call them racially aggravated assaults some might call them incidents...some jokes..some nothing. In my case police called them racially aggravated assaults and i stick with it..

I personally think there is and there is always been a problem with it (So we don t mention the word) here in uk but not my problem anymore as soon leaving this country.

I know also other europeans that have had a taste of those "incidents". Family of 5 she is dutch he is italian. Both in Uk for nearly 20 yrs, children born here. After 3 of those "incidents" they have now put the house for sale and already moved to Bruxelles.. He was the youngest lecturer in UK very bright guy

I don t really wanna talk about those "incidents" as find it disgusting. what I d like to understand is how comes ppl in UK are all complaining for Trump s election..as PM here was anything better than him..

People have invaded streets protesting against Trump

women have been marching against Trump but nobody say a single word on Your not elected and "over decisional"PM. It takes lots of chutzpah, especially as woman in uk, to march on the streets against some elected racist overseas when in here.....

....we better march on the streets against US president to show we are different from him while here there is an article on deportation nearly every day since brexit on any newspaper....people from EU are receiving letters in order to get ready to leave the country...this(like the one reported on here) kind of "incidents" have gone incredibly up in this country since brexit for EU and not EU!

it seems like there is, a part from the agreement with EU, a plan to put pressure on people to leave (bank accounts closed suddenly as not used very often..ppl having to leave UK for 1 year or two as for taking care of old parents abroad and deportated on their way back to uk after 27 years here with husband kids and grandchildren. see the todays guardian)...

The only difference with Trump is that He talks more than he does rather here is more viceversa. I personally, a part from the wall thing (but still wait and see for the border in ireland), did not notice any difference in between trump speech and may s speech..but than...

...let s keep pretending there is no problem, let s keep pretending trump is evil and we are good...let s call a racist aggravated assault an "incident"...let s go and march as women against trump while your Female PM goes literally hands in hands with him..

If the one reported on here is an "incident" how comes there is nearly every day such an incident in here and furthermore after how many repetitions an incident becomes an habit..? (for those who do not believe pls feel free to ask for references as i am collecting the articles..)

let s just pretend....and good luck!

[JoeLeg]

Pato - you make good points, but believe me, there's a lot of people who aren't 'pretending'. We're well aware of the directions some groups of society are moving, as they feel empowered to let their inner fool out. It's a problem, but I'm hopeful that over time it will subside. Firstly, we simply aren't as racist as we used to be generally; the days of 'no blacks no Irish' are gone. Secondly, not everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist, we all know that. There's a lot of Leave voters unhappy at the incidents you described, and I'm optimistic that ultimately these horrific attitudes wil change. I could be wrong of course...

People protest against Trump because he openly represents some pretty unpleasant attitudes. True, there's a lot of it everywhere, but when you've got an administration that so openly tries to screw with a free press and is blunt in its aims of protectionism and isolationism, the policies necessary to achieve that are going to be divisive, to say the least. Trump scares me far more than May. For all that I may disagree with certain Tory policies, even many of them, the Comservative party is one of intense pragmatism. They aren't willing to destroy entire political and international structures to achieve grandiose new aims, whereas Trump and his team are ready to rip up the rule book in order to get what they see as necessary.

Trump is doing exactly what he said he would, unusually for a politician. Fuelled by a populist movement which will tolerate any message from him so long as it's couched in words which make them believe he will always put them first, he's ready to fuck the rest of the world in order to win. And he's surrounded by true-believing acolytes who sense that this is their real opportunity at power (Steve Bannon being the worst, most obvious example, but there are many), who will use this administration to pursue their own private philosophies. So yes, Trump poses are far greater threat than May.

(Apologies for going so far off topic. My essential response is that yes, you're right about some of what's going on in the UK now, but I'm hopin we as a nation will remember what benefits inclusivity bring. I'm in an interracial marriage, so I feel I have an interest in that aspect.)

[Administrator]

Pato

It's incorrect to say "...title has been changed on here from "racist incident this afternoon" to simply "incident this afternoon"... "

It was changed from "racist incident this afternoon" to "Someone shouted 'terrorists' at a man and woman" incident this afternoon".

[uncleglen]

Pato- the people of the UK voted for a Party because of its policies- or because the alternative is unacceptable-not for an individual because said individual is just a figure-head...political decisions based on personalities are doomed.

My own family and all the other members of my family joined 'white flight' (incidentally, all our grannies and grandads were either Irish or Jewish) from East London because we had all been summarily harassed constantly one way or another by peers in school, neighbours and/or landlords and/ or lack of council action to prevent the harassment. If it had been us who were doing the harassing I am sure we would have been called 'racist'.

And you JoeLeg mentions protectionism- have you not heard about the 'protectionism' going on in the building trade, and I daresay in other places like Bangladeshi restaurant kitchens,....why, even in Barry Road a development had a hoarding proclaiming 'Polish Builders' on it...which made my hackles rise because many members of my family with mortgages and children have been put into great difficulty by being undercut by those living 10 to a house in London. All power to Trump's elbow (literally)- because unless catholicism and islam review their breeding habits things will only get worse.

[JoeLeg]

Ok Uncleglen,

No, I have not heard anything about protectionism in the building trade. I don't doubt their are unacceptable rackets going on, and I personally believe the answer is a properly regulated trade staffed by properly accredited workers who can prove their credentials. we need legislation for that and government willing to stand the political weather that will come with standing up and admitting our industries need revitalising from the ground up. I'll support that 100%. There's no other way to root out gang masters and criminals.

As for 'Bangladeshi kitchens', well the change in legislation from two years ago made importing their skills very difficult. You'd be amazed at the number of Europeans working in those restaurants. (You want British workers in there? Tell them to stop being so lazy and learn the value of hard work.)

I would point out though that the protectionism of the building trade is as nothing compared to what Trump will do. It will have international ramifications - do you feel confident predicting that the UK is going to benefit from a trade war between China and the USA?

You're a very angry man, and I can see why. You feel that you've been sold out by successive governments who have allowed the immigrants in and stolen your country. Fair enough. It's not something I've experienced, and I've lived here since the 70's, but I'm not going to tell you your experiences are false. Not got a lot of time for your religious bigotry though. I hope you feel you get what you want from Brexit, but immigrants have been coming here for centuries, and we've been hating Catholics for centuries, and since 2001 we don't seem to like Muslims much, and given that just over 50% of immigrants aren't from the EU I'm not really sure what you're hoping this country will become.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Blimey, astonishing amount of pedentry on this thread

[KidKruger]

Pedantry.

(Sorry. Just had to)

[Mick Mac]

Ha. Good work KK.

[pato]

Dear Administrator,

I see your point. I understand also all the reasons You did not mention. I sincerely apologise but sometimes I find synthesising difficult and i became less precise. Once again apologies, i appreciate very much what You do for this forum. It could not exist without you. Thanx

I still be curious to understand why we cannot synthesise "Someone shouted terrorist at a woman and man" incident this afternoon with "racist incident this afternoon".

Don t You find shouting Terrorist in the streets at a couple cause of the way they look racist?? I do..and I think it also it makes sense to generally synthesise a title. What you writing as a title it s actually the fact itself..

Thank You anyway for what you do for us.

P.

[pato]

Dear Administrator,

I see your point. I understand also all the reasons You did not mention. I sincerely apologise but sometimes I find synthesising difficult and i became less precise. Once again apologies, i appreciate very much what You do for this forum. It could not exist without you. Thanx

I ll still be anyway curious to understand why we cannot synthesise "Someone shouted terrorist at a woman and man" incident this afternoon with "racist incident this afternoon".

Don t You find racist shouting Terrorist in the streets at a couple (cause of the way they look)?? I do..unless You wanna tell me their look was a coincidence and they could have shouted terrorist also to a lovely english looking grandma ??

I think it also it makes sense to generally synthesise a title. What you writing as a title it s actually the fact itself..

...Otherwise i really gonna start believing we gonna pretend...

Thank You anyway for what you do for us.

JoeLeg,

Thanks for You reply. I really enjoyed the tone of Your saying and I see Your points.

I respect the referendum result. I will never understand the referendum itself. Although I was sure remain will win I did not think it was right to have a referendum for many many reasons.

I mainly agree with what you say absolutely and also I have inside myself still a strong belief in this country and its people. I wanna make also sure You understand I have been longer here than in my own town. I love it here and in my heart it s home and always will be. I have became a Man in this country.

I disagree with You on Trump and May as the first one, after nearly 15 yrs attempts,unfortunately has been elected and he s not doing anything different than what he said in the beginning. I find it sad that all the dreams of a "better world" and the work Obama just started has been so ferociously slammed. Certain opportunities takes generations to come back but we all hope earlier

From my point of view I worry less for Trump than for May cause Trump is str8 forward and has been elected while I do not even discuss Mrs May on what she does. She might be right in her vision but than if She is right now it must be that she was wrong before...

I see too much forcing situations in Her ways..

First of all she was against brexit but than she changed her mind. fair enough.

Than not elected she decides to embrace the spirit of an entire (or at least half of it) country.

in between all of it she finds time also to go house of lords..

I Thought once decided leave or remain the way of leaving or remaining should have been debated in parliament, eventually the people could have decided with another referendum.

Even more considering the elected PM resigned You should have perhaps gone to vote again. So all candidates could explain, discuss their approach to leaving or remaining to the people and the people could decide....same as Trump did in the last 15 yrs. He has been saying for 15 yrs what is his approach to things. He has been frustrated many times till he got elected and now does what he said. Thanx God He is not alone but there is a democracy checking on him..

When Mrs May has been discussing her approach? When a different candidate has had the possibility to debate his/her approach with the rest of the country here in UK? Well in US it did happen..

Could we simply say that maybe half of the country did not want brexit? Can we say at least 20% of the leavers did not want to go out of Europe this way??

Can we than say that we are doing what people want considering easily 70% of the people would have said no to leave europe this way??..i don t think so but very unfortunately i m not able to say the same about Mr Trump. He said what he wanted to do and went for election...i don t recall anything like that on this side of the ocean but we see complaining here on how things go in US....

Why for instance we did not go on the streets to complain about Mr Berlusconi in Italy?He put the military for 100 and 100 and 100 of km in the south of italy to stop immigration..without mentioning the parties.. etc

where were the women marching against Trump when Berlusconi was saying the same things and DOING all of them for over 20 years??

My grandma talking about Mussolini once said: He was loved by people, He was a socialist. People wanted him to lead the country. We thought he had "a bit" of a strong character but before we realised things He set already the world on fire with Hitler..

Anyway thanx for reading and pls keep in mind I do not say to foment bad feelings and further division. I just say my point to reflect together as much as i read other people point of view. Hope did not offend anyone

I also wanted to give JoeLeg( i really like your username, best ever for me!) an advice that someone else gave me maaany years ago in completely different circumstances..

If You are in a fight or if You are in a trouble and You see someone coming looking for You, don t worry too much about the bigger guy that comes shouting towards You but keep always an eye open on the small skinny guy coming behind him. The big guy is there to take your attention and hold you...the smaller behind him is the one who s gonna hit you..

I personally find what Jimi1234 is reporting racist by the sound of it.and i m not afraid to say it.I might be wrong and i hope I am wrong

I think He did very well reporting to police and to us. I had twice this kind of "incident" since brexit and as I m sure JoeLeg unfortunately knows being in an interracial marriage...it can really hurt..

I still anyway believe in better:)

[KidKruger]

If the couple who were insulted on the street had been American I bet no-one would have shouted 'terrorist' at them, even after Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.

This is with America being the country the majority of nations in the world fear most.

It was because of where they appeared to originate from, which while being hate-driven, is race-based.

[keano77]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> KK was very wrong (above) to call you a tool, but

> I guess what you should really be called wouldn't

> get through the forum filters, so tool will do for

> now.

So let's just review this.

A person calls someone a name. Cue knee-jerk reaction from the usual suspects. They then proceed to call GG names with an added personal element which was missing from the original name calling.

You couldn't make it up

[rendelharris]

Ah, welcome back to the EDF's very own Richard Littlejohn. Yes, being rude to someone on here is obviously worse (in your eyes) than screaming abuse on racial or religious grounds at someone in the streets - which is a hate crime, not "name calling" - I think you should have a look at your moral values and question why you want to try to soften racial and/or religious abuse down to the level of a playground spat.

I have no compunction about being rude to someone who claims that reporting someone shouting "terrorist" at Muslims in the street is "stirring up prejudice" and that people who commit such acts "should be pitied and helped and not prosecuted and condemned." One should be as rude to such people as possible.

[keano77]

Oh they were screaming abuse now were they?

Talk about Chinese whispers (am I allowed to use the word Chinese in your world?)

[rendelharris]

Ah yes, well spotted, my error. So is it OK in Keano/Littlejohn world to shout racial and religious abuse but not to scream it?

[keano77]

No, of course not. It was a silly thing to do.

Can't speak for Richard Littlejohn I'm afraid because I never read him but I imagine he might question whether the person who shouted out 'terrorists' actually hated the couple he directed it to. He might have thought he was being funny, might have been trying to impress friends - we'll never know. Whatever the reason he shouldn't have said it.

I'm sure you don't hate people people here on the edf and by admonishing them don't intend to 'abuse' them or make them 'victims'. But such adjectives are bandied about here on the edf like confetti.

'Sticks and stones might break my bones but names will never hurt me'. Shame more people don't heed this old advice instead of running to the courts or expecting big-bucks compensation.

[TE44]

I think a bit more info on the person who shouted

"terrorist", and any other behaviour, was she/he

angry, some description etc

[KidKruger]

"he might question whether the person who shouted out 'terrorists' actually hated the couple he directed it to. He might have thought he was being funny, might have been trying to impress friends"

I have to admit, my chief concern was the recipients of the 'jest' from the perpetrator.

They're clearly identifiable as Muslims, so how, when they're called a terrorist in a public place, could they ever take offence and think it was anything other than "just a laugh" ?

[Mick Mac]

pato Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> After Brexit have found myself involved in those

> "incidents" ..as you call them..twice! I stick by

> the books and call them racially aggravated

> assaults some might call them incidents...some

> jokes..some nothing. In my case police called them

> racially aggravated assaults and i stick with

> it..

I'm sorry to hear about this assault Pato. I'd be interested to know what it was that evidenced/made the assault on you racially aggravated. Was it a comment they made about country/skin colour or something else? As opposed to "probably" being racially motivated, which is different and difficult to prove.

As an aside, I found it amazing how many people on EDF didn't think the Jeremy Clarkson "lazy Irish **** " assault was racially aggravated, yet calling someone a terrorist, with no mention of country or race, is.

[Jim1234]

I really cannot believe the replies on this thread. I thought racism was largely dead but I guess it's just not expressed publicly.

[keano77]

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "he might question whether the person who shouted

> out 'terrorists' actually hated the couple he

> directed it to. He might have thought he was being

> funny, might have been trying to impress friends"

>

> I have to admit, my chief concern was the

> recipients of the 'jest' from the perpetrator.

> They're clearly identifiable as Muslims, so how,

> when they're called a terrorist in a public place,

> could they ever take offence and think it was

> anything other than "just a laugh" ?

You miss the irony of your post KK

You took offence at GG's post because you thought he was belittling the reported incident but them called him a name. Two wrongs don't make a right

[Penguin68]

I thought racism was largely dead but I guess it's just not expressed publicly.

The expression of directly racist sentiment is certainly unfashionable - at least in metropolitan London - but it certainly isn't dead - even in metropolitan London. Fear, and dislike, of 'the other' - however that manifests - appears as part of our psyche - and needs overt and conscious over-ruling. It can be readily exposed through (often) drink, anger, and of course forms of dementia. Most of us who pride ourselves in 'not being racist' are actually priding ourselves in our abilities to suppress expressions of our racism - even sometimes to ourselves. Hence the discovery of 'institutional racism' in the Met - even amongst officers who had not thought of themselves at all as racist. 'Not being racist' is for most of us a case of our own vigilant internal policing, and not some magical change of underlying attitudes. That is different of course for some young people, and hopefully for many more in times to come, but to pretend we (all, of whatever background) don't harbour these thoughts in our subconscious is probably delusional. In a majority white culture, white racists clearly (because they have imputed majority power) are the most concerning, but others also harbour similar thoughts. And for 'racism' see also 'culturalist' and 'religious' discrimination.

[KidKruger]

keano - no i don't think so, nice try.

there's a BIG difference between someone trying to paint abuse as 'fun' or something they should be pitied for versus calling someone out on their behaviour.

there's a lot worse than irony going down on this thread.