any advice about local schools appreciated

[Fuschia]

OFSTED Dec 08

"Effectiveness of the Early Years Foundation Stage Grade: 3

When children join the Nursery, their knowledge and skills are above those expected for their age, especially in personal, language and counting skills. When children start Year 1, they have skills and abilities that are above those expected of five-year-olds, particularly in their personal, social and emotional development. This represents satisfactory achievement in relation to their starting points.

Taken as a whole, the quality of teaching and learning is satisfactory. It is good in the Reception classes and satisfactory in the Nursery. A common strength is that teachers explain activities carefully and establish orderly, warm relationships in each class. Where teaching is most effective, activities are interesting and engage the children as, for example, when Reception children were encouraged to count the sound being made by coins being dropped into a tin. Adults interact with children skilfully and foster their language and personal development and engagement with learning activities. This is done more consistently in the Reception classes because there is settled staffing. However, it is less effective in the Nursery because assessment is not yet used sufficiently to plan activities for individual pupils. In the Nursery class, some learning areas are sometimes not imaginative enough to engage the children fully or to extend their learning further.

Children receive good levels of care, and their safety and security is given a high priority. The well planned curriculum provides good opportunities for learning through play. New assessment systems are beginning to be used to improve children's achievement. The new EYFS leader has an accurate knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of the provision. A good range of improvements have been made since last September but these have not had sufficient time to fully impact on children's achievement and standards, especially in the Nursery where there have been recent staff changes. There are some important aspects to develop further including the use of key workers. At lunchtime, parents can only access the Nursery via a flight of stairs which creates difficulties for those with other children.

What the school should do to improve further

??Improve the teaching and provision in the EYFS, particularly in the Nursery, to ensure that children make the best possible progress with their learning.

??Increase pupils' rates of learning for data handling and modelling in ICT.

"

[Fuschia]

3= satisfactory

[oilworker]

I used to work for a firm that was contracted to carry out these inspections...but for obvious reasons I can't say nuffink...

[EDmummy]

Two kids in Heber. Love it but do think there needs to be a total rethink on summer born, Jan intake children. Going into a class of 30, nearly a year younger than anyone else can be damaging to a child's self esteem and levels of attainment.

Now, don't get me started on the ridiculousness of class size of 30 in the first place....

[Fuschia]

EDmummy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Two kids in Heber. Love it but do think there

> needs to be a total rethink on summer born, Jan

> intake children. Going into a class of 30, nearly

> a year younger than anyone else can be damaging to

> a child's self esteem and levels of attainment.

>

I'm afraid this will get worse as from Sept 2010 most LAs are implementing a single point of entry, all children will start in sept... though parents can choose to defer the place

until the term after the 5h birthday. (As they can do now in fact)

[kindaha]

Hi Redjam

many thanks for this. I have had a look at some schools in the spring but I saw so many that I actually couldn't see the wood from the trees and didn't feel that I could tell from a short tour. So I really appreciate comments from people who have direct expenirence of the place.

And yes I hadn't meant to provoke a big discussion about class, middle or otherwise!

[JessicaCT]

Heber's great ? there are even working class people as well as one or two who are properly posh. But there are lots of lovely schools round here so you'll be fine.

You might be interested in Heber's Open Day next Thursday, 26 November. From 9.30am to 11am. Refreshments provided by Parents & Friends of Heber Primary School.

Or the Heber Christmas Fair, Sat 4 December, 12-3pm. Entry's free and everyone's welcome. It's a good way to get a feel for the school community. (and in reference to a different thread, Santa will also be there in his grotto)

[civilservant]

been grinding away at the day job all day and just caught up on oilworker's answer to my question. Clearly I didn't go to the right university so I'm still clueless after reading it...

assume a school catchment area is fixed - then if you've got high-density social housing, usually inhabited by the under-involved working classes, you can squeeze a larger number of families (and hence kids needing schools) into the same space than if you've got middle class houses with gardens etc, presumably lived in by nice posh families.

So I wouldn't expect an over-subscribed school as a result of geographical position in say Dulwich Village, and so the only conclusion I can draw is that the middle class rate of breeding exceeds the working class rate of reproduction...

kindaha, I'm sorry if I've seemed to hijack your thread, but I've been amazed at assertions made by one or two of the posters, none of which seem to have much bearing on your original question.

anyway...I'm delighted to see that everyone else is also giving Heber a good school report!

[new mother]

K, League tables are published on all schools nowadays - newspapers and internet- and you will be able to compare primaries with prep schools or other local primaries.

[uplandsneighbour]

new mother, league tables only give a snapshot, and an old one at that. They can't tell you about how the school is doing now or tell you much about what it can be trusted to achieve. When my kid started at Heber some years ago, the league table info on Heber was damning! I was so sad that she couldn't go to Dulwich Hamlets etc because they were oversubscribed and nit-picky about non-church-goers, but now I can't be happier that I went with my gut instinct and sent her to Heber

[new mother]

That's interesting UN.

What was it about the school that appealed, do you think? Or maybe it was a general impression of a happy together environment that made you think "yes, this works"?

[kindaha]

civilservant - don't worry hijack away!. we have had to move from clapham where there is an excellent - school a 'beacon of excellence' so in theory at least better than any of the ones here because we 'the middle classes' can't afford to live in its catchment. it is slap bang in the middle of a council estate so all the kids from there get priority. still these discussions can go on for ever - i think it is sad when we reduce ourselves and others to a class. perhaps this could be said to be the privilege of the middle classes (not to have to think of what class they belong to) but if so it is a privilege I will hang onto. we are all humans and we all want the best for our children.

oilworker I didn't mean to say I don't know what class I belong to - what I meant is that I don't care to classify myself. I am middle Class if you insist as you surely must be by now. That however doesn't define either you or I.

[kindaha]

yes exactly this is why i have been seeking the opinion of those who have experience of the schools, so many thanks to the responses. :-)

[kindaha]

and by the way I am very happy that we have moved from clapham. East dulwich was a wonderful discovery, it is an amazing place.

[Growlybear]

Dulwich Hamlet is NOT a church school - it is a community school and therefore attendance at church is not taken into account with admissions. Dulwich Village Infants is a Church of England school, but the two schools are completely separate and there is no automatic right of transfer from the Infant School to the Junior School.

uplandsneighbour Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> new mother, league tables only give a snapshot,

> and an old one at that. They can't tell you about

> how the school is doing now or tell you much about

> what it can be trusted to achieve. When my kid

> started at Heber some years ago, the league table

> info on Heber was damning! I was so sad that she

> couldn't go to Dulwich Hamlets etc because they

> were oversubscribed and nit-picky about

> non-church-goers, but now I can't be happier that

> I went with my gut instinct and sent her to Heber

[civilservant]

kindaha, your 6pm post - surely you don't mean it was me that was worrying about how to classify you? I couldn't care less and I'm more than happy to leave that kind of snobbery to others.

new mother, the nice thing about Heber was the way that the kids seemed relaxed and to enjoy themselves in the school. We were taken around by the kids themselves and the hall and classrooms were bright and welcoming with their artwork. However, there was clearly a balance being struck between freedom and formality - all the children were in uniform and it was clear that we had to visit the school at set times, rather than just roll up, as was the case at one of the other options.

[kindaha]

oops sorry civilservant I meant oilworker - trying to write and deal with 2 small children is never a good idea!

[civilservant]

thanks, kindaha! and loads of good luck with whatever decision you make.

[Bicep_Builder]

You should homeschool your kids since they'll be corrupted by decadent western values in this godforsaken whorehouse of a country.

[zeban]

kindaha Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> civilservant - don't worry hijack away!. we have

> had to move from clapham where there is an

> excellent - school a 'beacon of excellence' so in

> theory at least better than any of the ones here

> because we 'the middle classes' can't afford to

> live in its catchment. it is slap bang in the

> middle of a council estate so all the kids from

> there get priority. still these discussions can

> go on for ever - i think it is sad when we reduce

> ourselves and others to a class. perhaps this

> could be said to be the privilege of the middle

> classes (not to have to think of what class they

> belong to) but if so it is a privilege I will hang

> onto. we are all humans and we all want the best

> for our children.

>

> oilworker I didn't mean to say I don't know what

> class I belong to - what I meant is that I don't

> care to classify myself. I am middle Class if you

> insist as you surely must be by now. That however

> doesn't define either you or I.

Look I'm sorry but if you don't care to classify yourself then why mention it as many times as you have. I think you are confused in thinking that we all must be middle class by now which isn't true.

I think it is a shame that you are using your privileges of wealth to monopolise the good state schools by moving into those catchment areas. This has however been going on for a while now though so it's no surprise to hear another person doing it but to then show what seems to me obvious outrage that those living in the local housing estates should have the audicity to get priority to these schools!!! Don't you think all good involved parents whatever class they're in want to send their children to the best schools?

And Civil Servant your remark that 'high-density social housing, usually inhabited by the under-involved working classes' is not only pure snobbery but also complete crap. Often it seems on the surface that middle class parents are involved more so than working class parents but that's because they're the ones with the economic clout, extra time, but more importantly the confidence to get overly involved- taking it as a given that they'll be listened to.

I don't want to sound harsh kindaha but please open your mind and educate yourself. Class is a complex issue in this country and it's not a case of you work hard, do all the right things, and you become middle class/ move up the social ladder. There is nothing wrong with being working class. I am working class and proud. My mother is working class and an amazing mother who fought hard to get me into good schools. I went to a very good university and got a very good degree and I was brought up in social housing with very little money. I'm not in a minority, and my mother is not in a minority. She's far more intelligent than many many people I have met.

If being middle class buys me priviliges that aren't supposed to be privileges in our society like a good education then I'll stick to being working class :)

I'm not meaning to have a go but I do worry about what your husband is feeding you. I'd like to think, and hope and pray!, that East Dulwich is worlds apart from Clapham. Maybe I'm the one in denial...

[redjam]

I'm feeling more and more sorry for poor Kindaha, who came on here to ask an innocent question about schools and is now getting attacked for using her 'privileges of wealth to monopolise the good state schools' and being told patronisingly that her husband is feeding her misinformation. What a horrible thing to say! If you go back and look at her posts on this thread, it is very clear she did not want to start a debate about class and education - it is others who hijacked the debate, she was merely responding. I think an apology is in order, no?

[candj]

Ditto Redjam!

[zeban]

It doesn't matter, if you're going to display your snobbery and prejudice then it's open for debate. And that's exactly what she's doing yet you're defending her.

I wasn't attacking her. I genuinely don't think from reading her above posts that she really understands what she is talking about, which she does say herself so it isn't patronising in the least bit, and she can't if she's under the impression that working class parents don't care about their childrens education, and middle class parents do and therefore should get the priority for the good schools.

This IS misinformation, wherever she got it from, and as a newcomer to East Dulwich I would hope that people already from the area would like to help her understand that these kinds of attitudes and prejudices are wrong and untrue.

[zeban]

Do you not think it's a horrible thing to say the things she has? because I think it's extremely horrible to hear such prejudice and ignorance in the area I live. And although not directed at me as an individual it is still deeply personal and offensive to me and other working class families of East Dulwich, especially parents.

So are her feelings still more important than the peoples feelings who are the subject of her prejudice?

[kindaha]

I will keep this short because i really don't want to get into this nonsensical debate- i just want to make some corrections to your perception of what i have said:

-i didn't once say that working class parents don't care about where their kids go - i said precisely the opposite. Oilworker was claiming that only the middle classes are obsessed with their kids education and i disagree strongly - we are all human beings who care about their kids whatever class we come from - please re read my posts.

I also was/am not in the least outraged that the kids from the estates can get into the school in clahpam - again exactly the opposite - of course i am very happy that they go there given they live two seconds away. i was again merely saying that the story is not so one sided and the middle classes dont have all the power. we can't always afford to be where all the good schools are.

it is not a question of the middle classes monopolising the school - we all middle class, working class whatever class want to do the best for our children. the middle classes have more options you are absolutely right about that - what needs to change is to give those who don't have options more options but you can't just blame people willy nilly for wanting the best for their kids. just as your mother wanted the best for you and i am sure used all that was within her power to provide you with the best, I use all that is in my power (which is actually rather pathetic) to help my daugher.

-I only said oil worker was middle class by now because she said that whoever find themselves in this post is by definition middle class.

-my husband is feeding me nothing i have a mind of my own.