Students - rioting

['bout now]

Brendan I absolutely agree, ideologically. Sadly someone has to pay, cash has to be moved from one huge pot to the next and I fear the pot that is at threat most is the pension pot.

So let the minority pay to let the majority have some decency in their dotage.

Of course there is a way around this. Tax. Pay more.

[Emerson Crane]

'bout now Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Brendan I absolutely agree, ideologically. Sadly

> someone has to pay, cash has to be moved from one

> huge pot to the next and I fear the pot that is at

> threat most is the pension pot.

>

> So let the minority pay to let the majority have

> some decency in their dotage.

>

> Of course there is a way around this. Tax. Pay

> more.

Are you joking, we're taxed to the hilt as it is.

[????]

Students revolting ....all good stuff.

It looked really tame compared to even 'Stop the City' and the comprison with the Poll Tax riots is abslutely laughable...and yes, I was there. Even the Freedom to Party march caused more arrests but the usual suspects want it to look like the whole counry's up in arms...

[SeanMacGabhann]

are we?

[Emerson Crane]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> >

> are we?

Yes we are!!! We're taxed on our income, savings, pensions, fuel, homes, leisure activities, shall I continue?

[SeanMacGabhann]

you can if you like, but compared to many countries we pay lower tax

And given the choice, I'd rather pay tax than cut everything to the bone

[DaveR]

"This would be funny if it didn't ring so true: [www.guardian.co.uk]"

It's not the least bit funny, and it's a complete crock (as most of the Guardian readers posting comments recognise)

Whereas this (statement from academic staff at Goldsmiths) really is funny:

"We the undersigned wish to congratulate staff and students on the magnificent anti-cuts demonstration this afternoon," said the lecturers. "We wish to condemn and distance ourselves from the from the divisive and, in our view, counterproductive statements issued by NUS and [national] UCU concerning the occupation of the Conservative Party HQ. The real violence in this situation relates not to a smashed window but to the destructive impact of the cuts."

So, a load of (middle class) students and lecturers want their fees and salaries to continue to be paid entirely out of general taxation (i.e. including everyone who didn't go to university) rather than by those who benefit most directly? Heroes, that's what I call them.

I'm amazed no-one has posted this link yet:

Daily Mash

[charliecharlie]

In my opinion the issue is not so much related to the increase in fees (which I agree has the negative effect of causing a greater indebted society) but is related to the massive reduction of funding for higher education in arts and humanities subjects. The increase in fees will become a tragic necessity if the 40% cuts in funds for teaching are to go ahead (to be reduced by ?3 billion for 2012 onwards).

I am, in principle, strongly anti fees for HE. I have seen at Goldsmiths, since the fees came in, a radical shift in the socio-economic profile of our student cohort, with the student mix becoming evermore middle class... so don't tell me that further increases in fees are not going to put off those from less privileged backgrounds from applying to universities!!*@??%! The proof is already there.

The course I teach on takes great pride in delivering the highest quality of education (in the 2010 Nation Student Survey, we came joint first in Design in the country for 'levels of student satisfaction' and 'quality of teaching'). We are already stretched (with year on year budget cuts and student numbers up from 30 to 50 to 70 over last 5 years). It breaks my heart to think we may have to reduce the quality we have fought tooth and nail to deliver. But if the cuts go ahead... do we have any option but to increase fees to maintain any sort of half way decent educational offer??????

The real tragedy is that the creative industries are so vital to our economy...

From the Will Hutton report "Staying Ahead: The economic performance of the UK's creative industries"

"The size of the creative industries is comparable to the financial services

sector. They now make up 7.3 per cent of the economy, and are growing

at 5 per cent per year (almost twice the rate of the rest of the economy).

Including those working in related creative occupations, the creative

economy employs 1.8 million people.

The UK creative industries outperform every other European state and

in the 21st century they have moved to centre stage of the UK economy.

It is vital to the whole economy that Government works with industry to

create a framework in which these sectors can flourish."

So the government are cutting a vital part of our future economic success... why??? nobody seems to be able to tell me what the Government's rationale is...

ps I was there and glad there was some rough and tumble at the end of the march (the majority was peaceful but we would not have got the coverage we needed without the violence... I am not pro violent demonstration per say but it served a cause)

they don't look such a bad bunch to me...

[Jeremy]

SMG is right, I know it seems like we're taxed to the hilt sometimes, but our tax is not really high by european standards.

Of course I don't *want* to pay more tax, but with all the cuts going on, meeting somewhere in the middle wouldn't seem too unfair...

[Emerson Crane]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> SMG is right, I know it seems like we're taxed to

> the hilt sometimes, but our tax is not really high

> by european standards.

>

> Of course I don't *want* to pay more tax, but with

> all the cuts going on, meeting somewhere in the

> middle wouldn't seem too unfair...

Sorry I don't agree. While I agree tax is a neccessary evil, the level of tax and the number of taxes is too much. The amount I pay year on year seems to increase with no direct link to my income, Councul Tax is a prime example.

[MrBen]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> SMG is right, I know it seems like we're taxed to

> the hilt sometimes, but our tax is not really high

> by european standards.

>

Aye. I'm also with the Gabba on that general view, in terms of both personal and business taxation. Last year we looked carefully at potentially relocating our business elsewhere and, after taking a large number of factors into account, the only places that ranked higher than the UK were New Zealand and Singapore. And they clearly wouldnt work for us. People moan about small business red tape but the reality is that tax is relatively very low, with allowances for entrepreneurial relief at 10% on capital gains etc. This is a great country to do business.

[charliecharlie]

and another...

[charliecharlie]

look like a bunch of sweeties to me...

[Keef]

"F**K FEES. FREE EDUCATION NOW".

It would appear this person never attended secondary, let alone uni!

If you're going to hold up a sign, at least make it witty!

Keef Wrote:

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> I support the students, but who the hell was that

> mouthy cow on Newsnight!

Mouthy Cow ?? are you sure ?? Paxman hardly let her get a word in and when she did manage to speak he just spoke over her.

I admit that he did talk over her a bit, but she was also guilty of trying to shout the others down with her cliched rubbish.

[Santerme]

MrBen Wrote:

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> It gives me some faith to see that the student

> population is still capable of sending a message

> to the powers that be when required with a good

> old fashioned riot (last seen circa 1976). And by

> occupying Tory HQ they've done a better job of

> taking the police/authorities by suprise than any

> of the splinter groups associated with the G8

> protests managed. For some reason it also seems

> less acceptable to beat students with a baton than

> say the G8 wombles....so the police have been

> restrained.

>

> But this kind of came out of nowhere...and no

> doubt it may get ugly as the usual suspects join

> in tonight but there is something stirring about

> it nonetheless no?

Actually, no it is not stirring in the least.

[Brendan]

Students taking an active interest in politics and how changes in the system will affect their future, is this not stirring?

Perhaps they should rather accept their lot and listen to those in authority as they clearly know what is best.

[Santerme]

That was not the premise of Mr Ben's post....he clearly makes the point that good old fashioned rioting is stirring.

Surely not?

[charliecharlie]

[quote name="F**K FEES. FREE EDUCATION NOW".

It would appear this person never attended secondary' date=' let alone uni!

If you're going to hold up a sign, at least make it witty!

]

Keef.... these placards were produced by the Socialist Worker Party, not the students or the NUS or the UCU...

do your homework before you take a pop at University students please...

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2009-03-01-duncecap.jpg

[Keef]

Chill out CC, I was only joking. The fact the sign clearly says "socialist workers " at the top, kind of gave away that it might have been one of theirs.

I'm not having a go at university students at all, I was one once, doing an arts degree (which admittedly hasn't been of much use to anyone, including me).

[charliecharlie]

hey chill out Keef I was only trying to wind you up

http://rlv.zcache.com/rizla_result_tshirt-p235165090942598517q0a0_400.jpg

but I also meant it too.... I am very protective towards students

[OliviaDee]

one of the students interviewed spoke well, i thought, about his appreciation of the current tax-payers supporting his education, and went on to say he hopes this education secures him a better paid job than the one he would likely get without it, and that then in turn, he would be in a position to pay higher taxes and do the same for another young person down the line.

now i know this is really silly, for a million obvious reasons, but he made me think how interesting it would be if, when we pay our taxes, we got to allocate what percentage of it we wanted to go where.

just an idle thought... but so stuck in my head...

[charliecharlie]

guess you got yourself onto the wrong course then...

[Keef]

I don't think you were CC, but we'll leave it there.

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu161/andyfitzpat/peace-sign-1.gif

[SeanMacGabhann]

But isn't that what "we" do when we elect a government - without that premise there is no unified "we"

[Keef]

guess you got yourself onto the wrong course then...

No, Music & Psychology would have been a perfect course had I stuck with my original plan to do music therapy, but by the time I was 21, I had different ideas to when I was 17.

I guess you could argue that I bring the joy of music to people by playing in a band, but some might say that their idea of joy is some distance from my guitar playing.