Students - rioting

[MrBen]

It gives me some faith to see that the student population is still capable of sending a message to the powers that be when required with a good old fashioned riot (last seen circa 1976). And by occupying Tory HQ they've done a better job of taking the police/authorities by suprise than any of the splinter groups associated with the G8 protests managed. For some reason it also seems less acceptable to beat students with a baton than say the G8 wombles....so the police have been restrained.

But this kind of came out of nowhere...and no doubt it may get ugly as the usual suspects join in tonight but there is something stirring about it nonetheless no?

[womanofdulwich]

The tv coverage made them looks a shambolic lot. I doubt it helps their cause.

[Saila]

the beginning of the end for the coalition

[Ladymuck]

ha ha Saila...I've not long posted a similar comment in the drawing room...reminds me a bit of the poll tax riots in the days of Madam T...

[curlykaren]

yes MrBen, I too find it stirring. Political apathy is so widespread in this country that I welcome almost any indication to the contrary. Beginning of the end for the coalition? One can only hope...

[Narnia]

Ladymuck Wrote:

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> ha ha Saila...I've not long posted a similar

> comment in the drawing room...reminds me a bit of

> the poll tax riots in the days of Madam Tussaud

You're not that old surely LM?

[Ladymuck]

Absolutely Narnia...

And what about Ted Heath and the miners...

Oooh, such fun!!! LOL!

[Marmora Man]

curlykaren Wrote:

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yes MrBen, I too find it stirring. Political apathy is so widespread in this country that I welcome almost any indication to the contrary. Beginning of the end for the coalition? One can only hope...

I don't know if it's the beginning of the end for the Coalition - but I seriously doubt it.

Rioting against is easy, but childish. I do not see it as stirring - although sensible protests, done well, can stir a proper debate and thus gain support for new ideas. The debate today will be about the violence and not the issue.

Providing alternative solutions, campaigning for them and gaining majority support is the hard but proper way to demonstrate opposition in this country (after all we're not French).

Not that current parliamentary opposition has any rational alternative to offer, particularly on student fees where the rise in tuition fees is the inevitable outcome of decisions they took whilst in Government - first to introduce tuition fees, secondly to expand vastly access to university without a commensurate increase in higher education funding and thirdly by growing the cost of public sector to unaffordable proportions.

Edited to change "protesting" for "rioting" as making better sense of my point

[ratty]

When I was a student we rioted against student loans. The police kicked the shit out of us on Westminster Bridge! Student Loans did not stop either. All in all a bad day that left a 17 year old female friend of mine in hospital with a fractured skull and broken jaw courtesy of a truncheon.

It will not be the last time we see riots like yesterday. Expect the old bill to start cracking heads!

[Keef]

I support the students, but who the hell was that mouthy cow on Newsnight!

[SeanMacGabhann]

  Quote

Sounds sensible in theory but I'm not convinced it's the only way to begin a change in policy

I don't see it as the student's (or even opposition's) job to come up with the answers - it's enough to say "nope, we aren't going to stand for this, you're the government, go figure something else out"

I agree this protest isn't going to affect the government in itself - but they would do well to heed the signs as they review their wider plans

[Marmora Man]

Sean,

I did acknowledge as much in my post

  Quote

Rioting against is easy, but childish. I do not see it as stirring - although sensible protests, done well, can stir a proper debate and thus gain support for new ideas. The debate today will be about the violence and not the issue.

[Jeremy]

Let's be honest, a lot of them were just there for a laugh. Lots of shots of students pushing to get on camera, giggling gormlessly.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Sorry MM - I saw that as contradicting not agreeing with my point

I do agree that the debate will be about the violence - that's just how the media works (and I say that with no hint of conspiracy theory, honestly) but if the police and government are satisifed simply with condemning the protest/riot then they will miss the point

As an aside: I saw on Sky news last night a segment where the presenter was asking a reporter in astonishment how the policed planned this so badly - he said that here were 200+ police at the Chelsea v Fulham game (50000 football fans in local rivalry) and for the demonstration there was only....

(and at this point he was so astonished I expected him to say 20)

250 police in attendance! He thought that ludicrously low whereas I thought surely a sensible plan would have thought that overly high but on the safe side? I know that given yesterday's events there will be many more at future protests but i don't see how yesterday's events were a given

[Keef]

  Quote

but who the hell was that mouthy cow on Newsnight

Clare Solomon. What a muppet.

[Emerson Crane]

While I sympathise with the situation many students now face with the increase in fees, my sympathy is somewhat diminished when I see people kicking in windows and damaging property. I expect this on a Saturday down the Old Kent Road after MIllwall have lost at home, but from the supposed cream of future generations, it's definitely a case of "you said, our survey said..........

[DJKillaQueen]

The only result that damage will get is a return to heavy policing of future demonstrations.....and we all remember what happened to that innocent man caught up at the G20.

[Ridgley]

Those were the good old days, riots I remember the Brixton riot as I went to school there it was a mess the aftermath. Students have a right protest absolutely but there are always a few to spoil things for others like I said this will be a winter of discontent

[Keef]

Quite funny hearing Cameron praising the police. Of course, he mentioned that there weren't enough of them... Best get used to that Dave!

[felt-tip]

Clare solomon is a disgrace.

[Keef]

She's just someone who has no idea. Just an ideology, and too many Bob Dylan records.

She seems to think that anyone who remotely disagrees with her is a facist, but I suspect she doesn't really know what a facist is.

I thought the Aaron Porter, president of the NUS did quite well on Newsnight though.

[Brendan]

This idea of forcing people into debt before they are even out of school is all about giving the financial sector more power over society and removing accountability through the democratic process.

Saying to someone that in order to get an education (ie be able to put a roof over their heads one day and feed their family) they have to be bonded to a bank through a loan agreement is neither fair nor morally justifiable. Bank clerks may as well go round putting guns to people?s heads and forcing them to sign loan agreements.

It is easily demonstrable by many examples that a developed country can provide higher education free at the point of delivery and based on merit not background. (the debate on the quality and proliferation of ?degree course? in this country aside though because that is a valid one)

Britain just seemingly doesn?t want to do this. Just another example of the type of people that inhabit this island especially those of the ?Conservative? bent who are wetting themselves at with excitement at a future where the next logical step is an education system where ability to pay is the basis on which learning is dished out. (even more so than it is now)

I grew up in a country where that is the case and knew many people who where denied education because they couldn?t pay for it. Apart from being counterproductive if you?re trying to get the best out of your population it makes the society not a very nice place to inhabit. I know some people feel that things like equal opportunity are just nice but not essential but those people aren?t really human. Nice matters. If you can?t see that then you really aren?t worth debating with.

[Brendan]

But you know. Fuk the next generation. Let them live lives even more enslaved to financial organisations and socially divided by lines of haves and have nots than we?ve had to.

[Ridgley]

I totally agree with you Brendan and I hate when politicians say just get a job to pay for your education err?

newsflash a lot of student do work part - time to help pay for there education not everyone can afford to put there feet up and expect mummy and daddy to pay.

[DJKillaQueen]

I too agree Brendan. It is immoral that young people should be indebted to banks as a matter of course like that. And worse than that we continue the mantra that debt is good. Debt is only good for banks and the money they make on it.