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Marmora Man Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> TT3,

>

> You must try reading posts before critiquing them.

> I did not claim the anti cuts march was attended

> by 35,000 I simply drew a comparison - multiplying

> the 350 by 100.

>

> I find Loz's argument way more persuavive than

> yours on the BA strike.


Me too.


I'd add the persuasive argument for AV to that. In fact, if it wasn't for Loz, I'd be surprised if anyone else could be arsed reading the arguments for it on the AV thread (in MY humble opinion, oh yes).


Chris Huhne and the speeding tickets - hilarious. And I look forward to the publication of his former wife's book next year. Do I think they are broken? I'd rather vote Green than Lib Dem.

What you don't seem to get is that there was no offer on the table 2years ago, that again is frankly a lie.


ACAS mediated an agreement back in July , but due to the complete breakdown of trust with BA under Walsh unite felt they could only take a neutral position on it. Then it went to the members who voted and it was rejected. The 'Union' as Loz puts it, does not put a gun to the members heads , the union is its members, the members vote democratically and thats it.


With Walsh gone and the leadership at unite changed the relationship has been put back on track. A very similar deal was put on the table again, this time with travel allowances and discounts re-instated, previous sackings now all put into arbitration and a promise from BA to consult the union on all proposals going forward. There was no consultation originally when Walsh proposed major non contractual changes to working conditions and staff numbers. Now this is going forward to members with a positive recommendation from the union, so we shall wait and see.


And here is a nice bit of text for you, written by someone else that I thought was spot on.


This is the reality of industrial relations. Nobody seeks the confrontation of the tabloid cliche ? the agreement at BA proves that. Workers do not strike at a whim or fight to save their jobs out of bloody mindedness. They do so only when they have to. For that, they need unions. The only real line of defence working people have Which is why the Bullingdon boys, from the chancellor to Boris Johnson, are having a go at them, all to make the country safe for the elite that brought us the great crash of 2008. As the demonstration on 26 March, the biggest event organised by British trade unions, showed, the country isn't ready to roll over.


......does the suggestion of a class war help, probably not, but it seems to me that it is really about fighting to protect and improve working conditions, conditions that have an impact of peoples everyday lives.

"Nick Clegg needs to grow a pear"


Ah, of course, the Chinese symbol of longevity, are you suggesting that Clegg's played for short term gain and lost sight of long term strategy? I think you could be right there you know.


[i know I shouldn't Ridgely, but you make it hard to resist sometimes.]

I met the president of the lib Dem party last night - he came to visit us in Dulwich.

He reminded us of where been before - in 1989 on 0% as per The Oberserver.

We're a tenacious lot and 16% as per two weeks ago isn't ideal but is a fine launch pad for the next few years.

James,


Please tell me you had your tongue firmly in cheek on that post?


Given the utter shambles presented by the two other parties, the undoubted abilities of the LibDems to be all things to all men at a local level, you honestly believe that after 22 years, a 16% share of the vote is a "fine launch pad"?


Doomed.

Hi cavid_carnell,

As the saying goes as week is a long time in politics - so 4 years until the next general election is a political lifetime.

A couple of weeks before the elections lots of opinion polls had us on 9%. Clearly its a volatile time politically as Lib Dems have been taking more of the brunt - in many northern parts being associated with tories in any way is poisonous and that's the key to the result.

But in some areas we made our luck.


So, yes I had a smile when I posted it but as a Lib Dem it feels true.

Ah the 'El Presidente' of the 'Liberally Principled Party' , swept into the East of Dulwich stronghold on his Barclays sponsored bike, decal stickers masked with liberal yellow !!!


Did he say " our 16% is in a place where they will never get it back", in the hearts of our people !


Or did he offer you a sweetner james huh James?, I can see it now a cherised photo of you pair now hanging above the Hunter wellies by your front door.


Taking more of the brunt ??? as they say down bermondsey way " Dont be a muggy **** " .....your party has been taking it somewhere but the brunt aint it. Blimey he did the Jedi mind trick on you alright


" My focus as Party President will be to inspire Liberal Democrat members to be proud of our party, to work their socks off for the coming electoral contests and the AV referendum, and to inspire a new generation of members and activists to believe that they can make a difference by joining us. My focus will be on campaigning in the country and in the media - making it clear what we stand for, and talking to people in a human and accessible way " the president ..i kid you not?


So some questions, firstly what do you stand for? and what an earth do you mean by Northern parts.....what where they eat babies and have not heard of SNUB bags ?

tt3, when will you work out that the only people who talk that way are teenage boys with ADD and an over-inflated view of their own importance in the world?


Please relax and try to form a reasonably coherent argument.


I believe James' reference was to the traditional labour strongholds in the north of the country. Whilst the Lib Dems weren't in power, their socially liberal policies could be interpreted as an alternative to Labour. However, the compromises they needed to make to enter into a coalition undermined that confidence and cost them votes.


The baby-eating analogy is from Jonathan Swift and refers to Ireland, the SNUB insult seems rather unpleasant way to refer to some hardworking and altruistic people.

You put the air in over-inflated I am sorry to say.

You can not put a reasonable argument to something so utterly delusional, put down your encyclopaedia Britannica?s they are a bit out of date to be honest.


As for your rather unpleasant ADHD reference pop down to your sunshine house and spend some time with some young children with ADHD you moron. No doubt we will get an over inflated reaction to how you were merely being amusing according to some obscure journal for the witless that you have stashed away somewhere.


As for James and his president, they are politicians, of a kind that the majority of this country probably have lost complete faith in. Working in the local community rarely translates to the wider world. Working selflessly for others is one thing, but working with an underlying political goal rather puts another twist to it.


So are they broken?


This lot running the liberal's have done some serious damage that is not going to vanish in a hurry. There was no choice but coalition so don't be deluded. It?s what their leadership has done with the 16%...that?s what 'el presidente?, on behalf of the political pygmy Clegg, is trying to blind you with. What have they done with the 16%..........serious damage that's what. They have completely shattered what now seems to be a tardy illusion of the liberals and their 'new kind of politics' ....surely a joke. Or they have re-set the party on a different moral course?


If James is thinking then he knows.....his political launch pad is better served with Nick served up to the public. He knows his conservative 'friends' have served Chris Huhne up to keep their puppet Clegg at the table ......Liberal springtime coming I think.

Sorry for any misunderstanding tt3, I wasn't taking the mickey, I genuinely think you need to calm down and get some help.


I'm going to have to put you on invisible right now, because it's clear that you're not going to take the advice, and for me I have better things to do than try and have a sensible conversation whilst a small kid is leaping around the room screaming 'look at me' at the top of their lungs.


I hope that you can take some solace in the fact that you're the first person I've had to make invisible, that's quite some achievement.


Best of luck, I wish you well.

More intelligently, last year the Lib Dem Voice put out a study of over 500 party members to ask them how they describe themselves.


The interesting thing is that whilst the results are subjective, a lot of these concepts are mutually exclusive. For example you can't be both a moderate and a radical.


Very few of these concepts are scoring much over 50%.


This means that whatever Clegg did, half the party were going to like him for it, and half were going to feel betrayed.


As is probably apparent, most of my own views are nested at the top end of this table, which is probably why I was willing to identify with the LDs for this election - and what I will judge them on for the next.


Ridiculous political cant has no place in this debate, but I hope this kind of data can bring something to the discussion:


87% ? Liberal

65% ? Progressive

64% ? Social liberal

60% ? Internationalist

55% ? Pragmatic

52% ? Reformer

45% ? Centre-left

44% ? Civil libertarian

44% ? Radical

41% ? Green

35% ? Economic liberal

34% ? Social democrat

33% ? Moderate

30% ? Moderniser

27% ? Centrist

25% ? Keynesian

21% ? Libertarian

20% ? Ideological

16% ? Mainstream

14% ? Free marketeer

9% ? Centre-right

Er??


Oh my god my hands have vanished, blimey my shoes look disconnected from my ankles, and my hands where have they gone......oh hang on..........what?s that.......yes there is something still there .........what could it be........oh thank the lord its still intact...........my bloody right to an opinion and freedom of speech!


Who is this moronic poster above? As for his bloody list he missed off Liberal fascist which he is 100% of. When they get called out and don't like it, they first try ridicule, offending people that are not even writing on here, then they do what all fascist's do and withdraw from the democratic process, using the mechanisms of power to their own ends, changing the way things worked to suit their own narrow minded views of the world as they see it, excluding others who don?t agree whilst all the while trying to keep their hands on the levers of power.


Its Fascism whatever way you Liberally decorate it poster H, you would be bloody dangerous if they let you out in the real world, one that thank god you don't get to influence.


67.9% percent said no to your AV vote, you accused them of being mugs and sheep. Get a life.


As for the Liberal Democrats are they broken? With people like the above speaking on their behalf I would now say so.

If you think that your seeming grasp of sentence structure leads people to believe that you are endowed with some kind of intelligence, then you are sadly mistaken? It just shows your potential to be a narrow minded snob of sorts, are you from the village ward?


To talk about how the president swept into town and discussed the marvel of 16%, at a time when the vast majority of the country are seething about Nick Clegg, and disgusted with the moral u-turns the liberals have taken to gain some power, is frankly, utterly delusional.


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