Dogs being nicked from outside Sainsbury East Dulwich

[enjoy]

I don't own a dog but I assumed it to be normal to leave a dog outside the shop for a short while to get your stuff done.

I can't see the point why people blaming the owners and not the bastards who steal dogs.

Reversed reality ...

[Hoopoedi]

Spot on, "enjoy". I agree 100%....

[Mark]

Leaving a dog outside a shop is not illegal whereas stealing is.

Without knowing any other facts I think trolling the forum with phrases that the owners are "fool people" and "irresponsible selfish" are unjustified and purely written to be divisive and distracting of the original point, which is "Watch out there are dog thieves about".

It's good to hear opinions, especially honestly empathetic ones and even better to hear constructive ones about how to help each other round here.

Thanks for the warning PeckhamRose, I'll keep an eye out for anyone suspiciously untying dogs.

[KidKruger]

wot ali2007 said.

[ianr]

[The thread about a dog recently taken from Sainsburys, and now recovered, is in the Lost, Found or Stolen section at http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?31,1786160.]

[Nigello]

It is bad that people steal dogs.

It is bad (but much less so in the grand scheme of things) that some dogs are left to yelp and yap outside cafes/shops whilst owners do things that don't necessitate bringing said animals along in the first place.

Both realities can and do exist. Open your minds, man!

[Jeremy]

Basically... wot ali2007, Mark, enjoy and other sensible people have said. It's a pretty normal thing to do. And besides, you shouldn't presume to know their circumstances and reasons. I'm sure everyone is OK with people questioning such things, but it should be possible to do so without being nasty about it.

[Penguin68]

When I was young, children were often left outside shops in prams (you couldn't get the old big Silver Cross prams into shops) - indeed children were also left outside pubs (with a packet of crisps and a lemonade if they were lucky). Some dogs do have abandonment issues (as do some children!), but many are perfectly relaxed about being left tied up outside somewhere for short times (and far better that than being left in a car in the sun). It is a sad commentary on our society that we blame victims for the actions of criminals - as if criminality was the expected norm in our lives. By doing so we validate criminal actions (by treating them as normal and expected).

[Zelig]

And here is a prime example of irresponsibility:

ali2007 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I take my dog for a walk in the park. On the way

> back, I realise I need some milk. I tie the dog up

> outside the shop as I HAVE NO OPTION TO TAKE THE

> DOG IN.

Yes, you do

The dog gets stolen. Then it would be MY

> fault for leaving my dog outside for 5mins?

Yes, see above.

>

> I would love to take my dog in but so many shops

> are hostile. I tried to take her into the Post

> Office and was told to leave her outside

Take dog home then come back.

(btw

> there is nowhere to tie your dog up outside unless

> you want them to get run over by a bus) so I had

> to leave. So instead of taking my dog out on fun

> jaunts these days, she has to sit at home bored as

> hell. Something's not right.

Mistreatment of dog.

How many threads have there been on dog escapes tether outside shop, running scared, plesse help? How many poor tethered dogs are attacked outside a shop by nasty vicious pitbull/terrier type dogs on or off lead with moronic owner in toe, proper pet dog tied as if a sacrifice? How many kids/adults that have a fear of dogs being too scared to enter/leave/pass tethered dog and go about their daily life? How much dog sh#t is carried on dog that you want to take in food shops when apparently, according to never-ending dog sh#t threads, 98% of ed kids under the age of 10 are blinded via dog sh#t.

So, treat the dog responsibly, don't impose and dogs and owners and others all get along.

[rendelharris]

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> When I was young, children were often left outside

> shops in prams (you couldn't get the old big

> Silver Cross prams into shops) - indeed children

> were also left outside pubs (with a packet of

> crisps and a lemonade if they were lucky). Some

> dogs do have abandonment issues (as do some

> children!), but many are perfectly relaxed about

> being left tied up outside somewhere for short

> times (and far better that than being left in a

> car in the sun). It is a sad commentary on our

> society that we blame victims for the actions of

> criminals - as if criminality was the expected

> norm in our lives. By doing so we validate

> criminal actions (by treating them as normal and

> expected).

Same here - my mother was telling me the other day how there was some debate in the late '60s as to whether a baby should be on their face or stomach when asleep, so sometimes she'd come out of a shop and find some well meaning stranger had turned me the other way up!

But sadly it's not that sort of society any more, nobody (I hope) would think it OK these days to leave a baby outside in their pram while they went into the bank/shops whatever. It's not "victim blaming" to say don't do it, it's just common sense. Similarly if, as it seems from the OP, people are pinching dogs, it's not "victim blaming" to say don't leave your dog unattended, it's common sense. Yes it would be just peachy if we could not have to look out for criminals, leave our doors open, not lock our cars etc etc, but we can't. Accusing people of "victim blaming" for saying be careful is ridiculous.

[jaywalker]

"But sadly it's not that sort of society any more, nobody (I hope) would think it OK these days to leave a baby outside in their pram while they went into the bank/shops whatever. It's not "victim blaming" to say don't do it, it's just common sense."

Hmm. I am not so sure about this as a general point. Of course, I agree social services would 'rescue' the child, and infants are too young to be left alone except in extremis.

The reason (I know this post will be unpopular) is that child-abductions and child-murders are pretty much constant over time as a percentage of the population (at least last time I looked up the stats - does anyone have them?).

In fact what has changed is visibility and a blame-culture.

Rendel, I guess we both ran free as children in London: not a bad thing at all (despite the ensuing mischief). Perhaps it would be better if parents and dog owners DID revert to practices that were normal a few decades ago. Children, it seems to me, are quite likely to be damaged by constant surveillance and care.

Having said that, I'm not sure my mother would have left me in a pram alone outside a shop in the 1960s - she always had a nanny or au pair girl on tap :-). So there is a danger of blaming social class here too.

[Dohchos]

Bad things happen sometimes, we can't live our lives constantly second guessing others, so leave your dog responsible tied up to pop into a shop. Enjoy your day and let the dog fit in and around it, if we modify our whole lives to accommodate a few ill meaning people we will never get anything done.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> When I was young, children were often left outside

> shops in prams (you couldn't get the old big

> Silver Cross prams into shops) - indeed children

> were also left outside pubs (with a packet of

> crisps and a lemonade if they were lucky). Some

> dogs do have abandonment issues (as do some

> children!), but many are perfectly relaxed about

> being left tied up outside somewhere for short

> times (and far better that than being left in a

> car in the sun). It is a sad commentary on our

> society that we blame victims for the actions of

> criminals - as if criminality was the expected

> norm in our lives. By doing so we validate

> criminal actions (by treating them as normal and

> expected).

My parents used to take me and my siblings to the pub, leave us in the car and occasionally pop out to deliver a bag of crisps or a coke through the window. We'd even be allowed to put the radio on. We thought it was a great treat. Looking back at it, it doesn't really seem so much like a treat.

[Zebedee Tring]

The 50s and 60s, when I was growing up, were not exactly a risk free period for kids - abductions and murders were scarcely less common than today. Remember that the Moors Murders, arguably the worst case within living memory. took place in the early to mid 60s

[red devil]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> My parents used to take me and my siblings to the

> pub, leave us in the car and occasionally pop out

> to deliver a bag of crisps or a coke through the

> window. We'd even be allowed to put the radio on.

> We thought it was a great treat. Looking back at

> it, it doesn't really seem so much like a treat.

Why am I not surprised...:)

[Earl Aelfheah]

Formative years red devil - they leave their mark.

[Mugglesworth]

Surprised nobody's blamed the dog yet. Looking so cute and all and going off with just anyone...

[actuarygi]

Zelig Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> And here is a prime example of irresponsibility:

>

> ali2007 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I take my dog for a walk in the park. On the

> way

> > back, I realise I need some milk. I tie the dog

> up

> > outside the shop as I HAVE NO OPTION TO TAKE

> THE

> > DOG IN.

>

> Yes, you do

Don't be ridiculous Zelig, what ali2007 writes about is the problem faced by a lot of dog owners including me everyday. Dogs are not allowed into shop. Full stop.

> The dog gets stolen. Then it would be MY

> > fault for leaving my dog outside for 5mins?

>

> Yes, see above.

Again, that is absurd. The thief stole the dogs and you blame the owner for it ? Get real.

> >

> > I would love to take my dog in but so many

> shops

> > are hostile. I tried to take her into the Post

> > Office and was told to leave her outside

>

> Take dog home then come back.

> (btw

> > there is nowhere to tie your dog up outside

> unless

> > you want them to get run over by a bus) so I

> had

> > to leave. So instead of taking my dog out on

> fun

> > jaunts these days, she has to sit at home bored

> as

> > hell. Something's not right.

>

> Mistreatment of dog.

Why not blame the post office for not letting dogs in the first place ? Don't start there. When dogs are on lead with owners they behave absolutely brilliantly. Extremely rarely the dogs will do a poo or piss while inside the premise, not anymore than staffs getting abused by "customers".

>

> How many threads have there been on dog escapes

> tether outside shop, running scared, plesse help?

> How many poor tethered dogs are attacked outside a

> shop by nasty vicious pitbull/terrier type dogs on

> or off lead with moronic owner in toe, proper pet

> dog tied as if a sacrifice? How many kids/adults

> that have a fear of dogs being too scared to

> enter/leave/pass tethered dog and go about their

> daily life? How much dog sh#t is carried on dog

> that you want to take in food shops when

> apparently, according to never-ending dog sh#t

> threads, 98% of ed kids under the age of 10 are

> blinded via dog sh#t.

> So, treat the dog responsibly, don't impose and

> dogs and owners and others all get along.

Again, Zelig, 1. If off-lead stray dogs attack a dog leashed outside the cafe, it is the fault of the OWNER of the off-lead dogs. 2. Dogs don't shit in food shops. 3. When dogs yelp it doesn't always mean that they are stressed. Most often they want attention, like kids. 4. You just have to teach kids to go on with their daily lives when they walk pass a dog leashed outside a cafe.

[edcam]

It's sometimes inconvenient when we'd like to shop and have the dog with us but we suck it up and do the shopping while leaving the dog safely at home for a limited amount of time. I think there are many places that unfairly exclude dogs but there's not much we can do about it and we tailor our time according to our needs and the dog's needs.

It would be very handy to be able to tie the dog up outside a shop for a few minutes but the risks are far too great these days.

We also seek out dog friendly places where we can go. There aren't enough but there are a fair few.

[Earl Aelfheah]

geobz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ....Its like saying oh why are you

> blaming a man that his house got robbed while he

> left his front door wide open... There is no

> victim here, just a fool person.

Just because one sees an open door, doesn't mean it's incumbent on that person to go in and nick everything. I once got home to find that I hadn't shut my door properly (by mistake obviously). Luckily, no one took it on themselves to empty my house but if they had, I would still have been the victim of theft.

TBH, I reckon 99% of the time, it's perfectly fine to tie a dog up outside a shop. Personally I feel sorry for the person whose had their dog nicked and angry at the shitbag that took it.

[Champ]

Dogs are property, and if you value your property you shouldn?t leave it unattended in public or you risk someone taking it away from you. Of course the thieves are the ones to blame but the crime is preventable by the owners.

[Alan Medic]

I'd like to suggest a solution to the problem, as I haven't read of any yet.

Dog kennels. Comfy ones where you can leave the mutt locked up in his own individual airy but secure kennel. A nominal amount to open the door and take the key out and bingo. Sainsbury's could have a row of them.

[red devil]

I'll offer you the full ?5k but I want 51% of the equity...

[Mick Mac]

Jenny1 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ... I also have reason to believe that this was

> common practice prior to my birth.

And that's a lot of years.

[Fly]

Not sure what people are supposed to do to not be cruel to a dog. Leave them at home they may get more upset than coming for the walk and waiting outside a few moments. I would personally welcome dogs in Sainsbury's until the thief is caught so long as they stay on a lead and any mess is cleared up. Maybe Sainsbury's could have special dog free hours for the phobic or a happy hour when they could go unleashed.