Breastfeeding in the evenings

[radnrach]

Since I got such good advice last time I asked about breastfeeding, I thought I'd give this question a go...

My little one is 9 weeks old, and breastfed only. He's gaining good weight, and he has a good amount of poops and pees in his nappy. Problem is, my milk supply seems to be pretty low in the evening, which means he ends up trying to feed most of the evening, and getting pretty little out of me. Not only is this frustrating for him, but I can do little else except try and feed him!

Recently, I've started pumping in the morning and then in the evenings when there's absolutely no milk and he's starving, at least I have some for him. This usually works because he's nice and full and satisfied after the bottle. However, sometimes I don't have enough time to pump in the morning, and sometimes he's still hungry after giving the bottle.

Is there anyway to get my milk supply up in the evenings? Has anybody had experience with this?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

[Ruth_Baldock]

Ive experienced this, although a lot of it was down to my sons witching hour. I think it's a very common phenomena, and n wonder! Taking care of a tiny baby all day is knackering. I got round it by having a nap with my baby in the afternoon to boost my energy, and also for some skin to skin. I reall made sure I drank a lot of fluids from 3pm onwards, and I had a bowl of porridge in the afternoon too- oats are good for milk supply. I also used to bath with my baby- relaxed me and yet more skin to skin.

[Fuschia]

Have you had a look here?

http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/fussy-evening.html

There is some evidence that evening breatsmilk is more concentrated than that produced earlier in the day, btw

If you're assuming you have no milk, just because he wants to feed all evening, it's probably not the case at all...

[radnrach]

The way I know is because he stops swallowing, and when I squeeze, nothing comes out :(

I'll have a read of that site, thanks for the link. And Ruth_Baldock, thanks for the tips, I'll give them a try!

[The Nappy Lady]

Your milk supply should increase with demand, so don't stop feeding whatever you do. Ruth's suggestions are really good, and at that age babies are prone to cluster feed, or comfort feed in the evenings. When he is sucking but not swallowing are you sure he is still hungry rather than sucking for comfort?

Could you get to one of the breastfeeding clinics to see what advice they offer?

Hope things improve soon.

xx

[ladywotlunches]

Radnrach

I have the same issues often with my 7 week old (although if I can get her to sleep for a good stretch before the 7pm feed, the milk seems to build up enough). I had the same with my first too, and the reassurance I was given is that if you really think there is no milk there, and baby is still ravenous (and despite the 'supply and demand' theories, I do believe mums can run out!) an ounce or two of formula (I know, shock! :))) is fine to give on top, after you've fed him yourself to ensure you don't reduce your supply further.

Like you I tried expressing, but find that when I do this the milk supply is less in the afternoon anyway, so it kind of defeats the object.

When I do 'top up', quite often my little one only takes an ounce or less, but its enough to satisfy her, I'm reassured I'm not 'failing' as she needs hardly any extra, and everyone goes to bed happy (including my older one who then gets some mummy time before bed!).

Do what works for you - as long as you're giving as much milk as you have, no-one can expect any more. Good luck x

[helibell]

Hi

For what it's worth I had the same experience with my daughter (now 10 months) from about 6-12 weeks & then that phase passed. Totally different experience with my first baby - he would feed at 7pm & then out like a light. So at first I found it really frustrating to be continually feeding from about 6-11 at night. It got easier when I decided to just go with the flow. Got myself ensconced in bed with remote control, books, ipod & just fed when she wanted. actually quite a good way to relax & stop yourself running around doing other stuff in the evenings. At a certain point I had the feeling that she was doing it more for comfort than cos she needed to, so started to put her down in a darkened room & go in & settle her by stroking/singing/patting. After 3-4 days she was sleeping all evening. I think it's worth going with the flow, rather than fighting it, follow your gut feeling & you'll know when your baby is ready to move on. In my experience the upside of cluster feeding is a long sleep when it ends.

Good luck & don't worry it will pass. try to ignore the 'you're making a rod for your own back' school of thought & follow your instinct.

[ladywotlunches]

I'm also going to give Ruth's suggestion of porridge in the afternoon a go. If nothing else, it might stop me raiding the cakes and biscuits!

[Knomester]

I have had similar a few times with baby Knomester and the main thing I found that helped was eating a lot more calories during the day - a big breakfast, mid-morning snack, main meal at lunchtime and another snack in the afternoon - plus drinking a lot of fluids.

I've also found that when Baby K is windy he asks for food as he doesn't know what's wrong, so often in the evenings it seemed like he was still hungry when in fact he wasn't. We also discovered pretty early, that he was tired in the evenings when we thought he was just being grizzly, so started putting him to bed earlier and earlier until he started going at 7pm. I feed him at around 5pm ish and then again around 6.30pm ish just before bed and this now (fingers crossed!) sees him through until around 4am. He's going through a growth spurt again now, so feeding for a bit longer to up his supply and I'm giving him as much as I can at each feed early in the day when I perhaps have a better supply.

Hope this helps a bit.

[radnrach]

Thanks everyone for your advice, I thought I'd give an update. To be honest, it's not gotten much better. I've tried eating more, drinking more, eating oatmeal, relaxation techniques, taking naps in the afternoon, pumping after feedings (which gets no milk at all!) and now I'm drinking Mother's Helper tea 4 times a day.

To be honest, maybe it helps a bit, but really not much. I've bought some formula just in case one night it is seriously bad and little one needs to eat and I can't do anything about it. But for the moment, I'm just going to deal with him being on the breast all evening long and being frustrated. Hopefully this is just a phase!

Thanks, though, for all of your help. It's good to know it's not just me and that other people have had the same problems!

[Fuschia]

It's a phase, it's normal, it's nature's way of building up your supply.

You will miss it once this stage is past and he needs you less, really, you will!!!!

[alieh]

It is totally normal for them to want to be close and "snacky" in the evenings, so I wouldn't worry yourself that it is because of supply issues, especially now that you've tried all those other things to boost supply.

The only other thing to check is whether you've tried what worked for Knomester - i.e. putting him down in a quiet, dark room a bit earlier. This was our experience too. So many people had told me that babies are often fussy in the evening that I just perservered with him downstairs with us, bobbing on and off the boob all evening and being quite screamy. Eventually I tried putting him to bed in his hammock in our room very early - like 6:30 and he was much happier. He would wake for another feed around 9 or 10 or something but then go straight back down, much more like a night feed. Ever since he has been an early to bed kind of baby and toddler.

It might not work, but you can only try!

[Fuschia]

Yes, DS1 owuld be up on the sofa with me till 9 or later

With the twins I would lie on the bed in the bedorom with them from about 7, they used to settle much sooner

A bath together with the baby at about 6, a glass of wine and very early dinner (don't wait till baby is settled) all make sit more bearable as well

Don't wait endlessly for your evening to begin when he's asleep, try to get what you want for yourself, as soon as your partner gets home!

[Saffron]

Research suggests many women perceive their milk supply to be low between 2 and 3 mos, so you're right in the middle of it! The key thing here is the word 'perceive'. If your baby is otherwise fine, then your milk is fine. There is no evidence to suggest that this 'perceived' drop in supply has any adverse effects on babies. Don't supplement with formula if you can avoid it, as this changes the gut pH and flora, and it could make your baby windy. Then you'd be out of the frying pan into the fire in that case. (This happened to Little Saff when we had to give a few bottles of formula b/c I had postnatal exhaustion and was in extreme pain.)

Acupuncture really does wonders for milk supply. Giles Davies on Barry Road is very good, as is Ella Keepax who practices from Harley Street. I can look up their contact info if you're interested.

Fenugreek combined with Blessed Thistle supports lactation, but you have to take much higher doses than what is recommended for general use. I had a really good tincture, more concentrated than any of the teas. I'll see if I still have the bottle somewhere to find out what it's called.

If you can afford it, get some help around the house. A cleaner, a nanny one day a week, or even just a friend to cuddle your LO in a sling for an hour while you have a rest in the early evening. Hormones produced during rest/sleep help to support breastfeeding.

Also, don't forget that just b/c you get nothing in the pump, it doesn't mean the breast is empty. Actually, the breast is never truly empty as long as you are lactating. And, the baby stimulates the breast better than the pump. So, baby can get milk even when the pump gets nothing. In addition, the baby can sometimes be getting a tiny trickle of fatty evening milk and not really making much of a swallow. Little dribbles of milk are just sliding down baby's throat while baby blissfully mouths the nipple, seemingly unaware of poor exhausted mummy above! These tiny fatty droplets may be just the food and comfort your LO needs in the evening.

That said, I agree with others' posts that fussiness and wanting to suck lots in the evening may be comfort sucking / over-stimulation / cluster-feeding, or any number of normal behaviours. It's probably a sign of what an excellent mother you are that you find yourself worried about it! Keep up the bfing. You and your baby will be just fine. xx

[Pickle]

Lovely post Saffron :)

I really don't have much to add other than my support. We went through the same things. I used to sit crying in the evening trying to express and getting nothing out, until one day I realised I was putting myself through trauma for nothing. As we did enjoy being able to let Mr Pickle do a bottle in the evening I switched to expressing at the same time as I was doing the first feed in the morning (took a bit of practise, but I would have the pump on one side and baby on the other) - and by doing this could fill a bottle in no time.

By doing it this way it meant it took no extra time out of my day, and was so much easier.

Stick with it, you are doing a brilliant job.

P x

[radnrach]

Just thought I'd give an update on this... After trying many different things, I happened upon a solution I wasn't expecting!

My brother was visiting for the week, and he loves ale. One afternoon I was out with him, and drank half a pint of ale. Low and behold, that evening I had no problems.. in fact, over night I had too much milk! This has never happened to me before. I've tested this out - some days having no ale, some days having half a pint, and seriously - every time I have half an ale, my milk supply is just fine.

So I have prescribed daily ale to myself. Strange, no?

[womanofdulwich]

strange but beautiful.

[reren]

Tomorrow i will try ale! Am having same problem and finding it so frustrating - after an evening of feeding all the time my nipples get so sore- he falls asleep on the boob and then thminute i take him off wakes up and wants more food!

[supergolden88]

just thought I would add that after having oversupply issues (too much foremilk) which made baby very gassy and uncomfortable I tried block feeding at La Leche League recommendation. This means feeding from one side only as other side gets engorged and uncomfortable in order to reduce milk supply. I only did this for one day and the next day I did not have enough milk. Unbelievable!

I had to keep baby breastfeeding round the clock and pump a couple of times daily to build up supply again. Luckily only took one day to reverse it. I am amazed that the change was so immediate.

And I have heard that Guiness has the same effect as ale.

[Smiler]

Like the idea of ale, will give it a try!

[ladywotlunches]

Hmm - yet another reason against abstaining from the booze :)-D

Any type of ale in particular - would a budweiser suffice, as that's all we have in the fridge!!

It might be along the same lines as the oats and pearl barley ideas - same kind of ingredients...

[littleEDfamily]

ladywotlunches - Bud is most certainly NOT ale! It's a dirty, chemically lager.. he he....Try Badger's Golden Glory (can get from Sainsbury's - it has a 'delicate floral peach and melon aroma'). Yum! I love ale.... I also like the ones you can get at the Franklin's shop.

[prm]

apologies if i?m repeating but has anybody mentioned chocolate? apparently it?s good for lactation too...just the excuses we needed to stuff ourselves with chocolate biscuits all day and drink beer (ale of course) every night! (btw I?ve never been a sweet tooth person but since i had my daughter i am really into choccie hobnobs, as are several other breastfeeding mum friends, so maybe that does say something about oats + chocolate?)