Yet Another Crash on Barry Road - Underhill Road Junction

[trentk69]

Quite a bad one this time. No one hurt, thank god! Luckily this happened on a Saturday morning, rather than a weekday or else this could have been much worse.

This crash finished off the railings that were only half damaged from the crash two weeks ago. Oh, and the traffic lights too...

I wonder if the council will take notice this time??

[Mellors]

Nasty, hope everyone was ok.

I always find it quite staggering that the powers that be seem to think that this junction is no worse than others in the areas. It is. There are horrid crashes there on such a regular basis, I can't believe nothing is ever done about it.

[DJKillaQueen]

The car has driven out in front of a bus (and looking at the damage, from the junction at the other side of the road, meaning the car zoomed out rather than edging out to check the way was clear).....Buses are one of the highest, biggest and most visible vehicles on the road. I think we can defintely put that one down to driver error rather than the fault of the junction.

The damage looks bad because buses are made of galvanised steel. Their frames don't crumple so the damage they cause to other vehicles, railings etc is greater than for other vehicles with the same impact.

There's nothing the council can do about poor drivers (who are the cause of most accidents after all).

[Mellors]

May well have been, but the visibility on that junction is awful at the best of times, and combine that with drivers going hell for leather down Barry Rd and you often feel like you are just taking a punt in trying to get across safely.

[DJKillaQueen]

Those may well be factors in making any junction tricky to cross and probably the only guaranteed solution would be to install traffic lights. The process to do that though is neither quick nor cheap.

[Penguin68]

The junction being talked about is a crossing point for 2 roads carrying buses - i.e. I would have thought non-trivial roads - the reason they both carry buses is that they are 'useful' - i.e. high traffic, roads on routes which leads to places many people want to go. The fact that there are lots of collisions there is a function of the fact that there is a lot of traffic using them both.

Add poor visibility at the juntion (with vans parked obscuring the view 'up' Barry Road) and speeding cars along Barry because coming from the Plough end it is downhill and straight and you have a recipe for problems.

Add to that the fact that both at this point are relatively narrow (Underhill indeed being intentionally made more narrow, Barry being narrowed on a regular basis by bendy-buses stopped at the bus stop) and the fact that the corner of Underhill is now a building site with large parked vehicles making it even more difficut to negotiate and you add Pelion upon Ossa in creating a hazardous crossing.

The last thing we should be seeing on this board is any surprise when yet another collision is reported. Of course some of these are down to simple driver error, but this is an unforgiving junction where any driver error is punished. Unless we live in some cloud cuckoo land where driver error is going to be eliminated, then this is a spot where a fatality is waiting to happen.

[kford]

Drivers pulling out have poor sight lines because of parked cars and vans.

Drivers using Barry Road are looking at the green traffic light (you can't help it) rather than the junction before. It's no coincidence that the other dangerous junction on that road has the same set-up - junction followed by traffic lights. Does this set-up lull Barry Road drivers into thinking that the coast will always be clear?

[hadenuff]

Sorry, I'm from Nunhead. I'm beneath you all.

[louisiana]

I came out of Underhill onto Barry on my bicycle just after (and got off my bike and crossed as a pedestrian because all looked so messy). Wondered what was going on. It's not a good junction, but a lot of the problems are down to the people that use it and how they drive.

[kford]

And the road design.

Green traffic lights make people speed up, ambers even more.

I also think the proliferation of unnecessary traffic lights across London, like the ones on Forest Hill Road, are breeding a generation of drivers who cannot cope with a simple crossroads.

[DJKillaQueen]

Some very good points there, and all of them valid. Trees also obsure view. I think realistically if anything is to be done you need to get it onto the Community Council agenda and force the issue now because road planning for the next round of TFL funding (which are schemes for the next two years) is happening NOW. Simon Philips in Transport Planning at Southwark might also be a starting point ([email protected]). He will certainly be able to provide data on that or any junction.

[Narnia]

As I've mentioned before it's safer for drivers to approach Barry Rd from Silvester Road, turn left (having a much better view of what's coming from the right) and then right into Underhill.

[DJKillaQueen]

I also think that for some drivers, they forget they are entering onto a main B road. What I mean by that is that it affects judgement of breaking distance and speed of vehicles on the main road itself. If turning onto a residential road for example, most drivers are going slower on residential roads and so the driver turning onto it judges by that.

Barry Raod is NOT a residential road in traffic terms. It's a main B-Road. I think personally that some drivers just don't take the extra care needed nor judge the correct distance required for them to pull out safely. Most of the parking on Barry Road is recessed, so the obstruction to view isn't actually worse than many roads with non-recessed parking.

Any measures to make the junction safer are really going to be measures to make poor drivers less of a liability than actually reflecting any fault with the junction itself. But that's doesn't mean of course, measures shouldn't be taken. I am also assuming that the pedestrian crossing was put there for a specific reason, and problems at that junction may well have been that reason.

[Narnia]

In retrospect it would seem to me that the crossing would be of more use on the other side of the junction. At least when you see the lights are red it takes the lack of vision out of the picture.

[Penguin68]

That's only true for vehicles travelling towards Peckham Rye - for those travelling from Peckham Rye towards the Plough the lights would then be, again, on the other side of the junction. Of course there is a longer 'run' travelling towards the Rye, so maybe speed has picked up well by then - but wherever the lights are they will be on the wrong side of the junction for someone.

[sharls]

I could not believe my eyes to see yet another crash at this junction. I was involved in the accident 3 weeks a go at this junction and I still feel sick crossing this road which I have to do daily. I am in the process of now buying a new car with 5 star crash rating etc as I do not feel it will be long before another maniac comes tearing down the road. Please can we all get onto the council to do something about this junction!!!!!

[DJKillaQueen]

Did the Police decide that the other driver was at fault?

The accident above didn't look like any kind of maniac driving (so not speed related). Just poor judgement when pulling out of the junction.

[cate]

I thought that anyone pulling out from a side road was always at fault.

[DJKillaQueen]

I think that is the case, unless it can be shown that someone was speeding or driving wrecklessly (i.e. something that the Police can prosecute).

It's like the scenario where someone brakes in front of you and you go into the back of them. You are always at fault for not leaving enough braking distance. They don't need a reason for braking.

[sharls]

DJKQ - The case is still in process but I think that will be the decision in the end. So much paper work and the other threatening behaviour to take into account too. I know what you are saying about this maybe being a poor decision with this present incident, but it does not change the fact that something must be done to improve the position for cars trying to cross Barry Rd from Underhill Rd. I really do feel so nervous now as my encounter was such a close call, and there was no way I could have seen that speeding BMW. Unfortunately I think there is going to have to be a fatality before anything is done about it.

[savage]

I cross at those lights twice a day with my kids doing the school run. I feel sick to the stomach when looking at those pictures thinking what might have been if this accident happened during the week.

Who knows when the worst will happen, but i'm sure it will. I was just driving down Barry Road going at about 20mph when i was overtaken on the zebra crossing at the junction with Goodrich, thankfully nobody was crossing!

[DJKillaQueen]

If the ConDems hadn't cut the road safety budget then speed cameras might have been an affordable option....but you get what you vote for I suppose.

[Nicholas]

I have written about this junction three times in the last three months and it was only about two weeks ago we had a nasty collision and thankfully no one was seriously hurt.Something needs to be done urgently with these statistics its only a matter of time before we have a fatality haven forbid.

It was the exact spot as the last crash the railings and traffic light compleatly demolished.

The railings were not repaired since the last incident. I wounder if the bus was speeding or the car just pulled out or a bit of both?

[DJKillaQueen]

I posted above how you need to go about getting something done. Posting on here remonstrating is not going to make it happen.

I think realistically if anything is to be done you need to get it onto the Community Council agenda and force the issue now because road planning for the next round of TFL funding (which are schemes for the next two years) is happening NOW. Simon Philips in Transport Planning at Southwark might also be a starting point ([email protected]). He will certainly be able to provide data on that or any junction.

That's what you need to do. Transport planning responds to data, unless a case is made for something not on the radar, because there are other junctions that have higher accident rates....and some of those junctions are now part of the two year funding application to tfl. That application isn't set in stone yet but it's no good waiting. The council do not have enough money to do all the work people would like....and those that ask most are the ones that get I'm afraid. Go to the CC...get involved with sub committee transport planning.

[Nicholas]

James Barber seems to be clued up and hope he's got some good contacts. He said he would look into this.

Re: doing something,we should all make a lot of noise in the right places. (No money cut backs is a problem)

You have made lots of posts and hope you intend to do something as I remember don't you live on this road?

I intend to write to Southwark council,this is an accident black spot.