Can someone set up a petition banning self entitled urban guardianistas from setting up petitions?

[Louisa]

Because I think it's about time we all signed another petition because they achieve so much, and put the awful world to rights. Petition, yada yada, petition. Tremendous. It's gonna be great. Yawn.

Louisa.

[JohnL]

When the government talks about 'will of the people' it's encouraging government by referendum and petition.

That isn't how government works in the UK IMHO.

[Seabag]

Some people go out to work Lou, you know 'like they're mostly busy' so signing a petition 'feels' as if they're contributing. However, as you're pretty much idle most of the time, maybe you could go and picket Parliament on their behalf. You certainly have plenty of energy for a semi/retired lady.

Keep it local, I'll sponsor you with Cuppa-Soups, if that helps.

I reckon a few days on Goose Green Roundabout, with the rest on the green at Parliament could work.

[rendelharris]

The thing that's making me yawn most on the EDF at the moment Louisa is your continuous whining about the "urban liberal elite." For heaven's sake, you've shown many a time that you can make thoughtful and intelligent contributions to debate, why do you have to resort to just recycling the same tired old trope over and over (something which is nonsense anyway, as I've mentioned elsewhere, your continual insistence that Brexit is really the fault of those who voted against it, and Trump is the fault of those who voted for Hillary, as if the working class are some mass of mentally defective sheep who can't be trusted to make sensible decisions but only vote in opposition to the great demon liberal urban elite).

As for petitions, the one I signed is the one on the official government website which, having garnered more than a million signatures, means there has to be a debate on the issue in the Commons. It may not be much, but it's something.

If you want to set up a petition banning self-styled working class heroes from dismissing people, who are simply expressing their well-founded disquiet about the state of the world at present, as urban elite liberal guardianistas (what a witty term, never heard that one before!) then put me down for a signature.

[Louisa]

Seabag, I think petitions tend to be set up by university students and a small clique of urban dwellers who thrive off of being seen to be outraged about things they don't necessarily understand. The UK is a parliamentary democracy, we have elections to air discontent with political elites. Any keyboard warrior can setup numerous email accounts and sign a petition in a matter of minutes and contribute towards the BBC putting up a headline that over a million people have signed a petition. What about the other 59 million (assuming every signature is one person, and that's questionable) who didn't sign a petition? If only it were so simplistic to suggest people work and want to contribute in any way they can. We don't know how many of the signatories work, nor will we ever find out.

If you're going to supply cuppa soups though mine is golden vegetable with a dry cream cracker.

Louisa.

[Louisa]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The thing that's making me yawn most on the EDF at

> the moment Louisa is your continuous whining about

> the "urban liberal elite." For heaven's sake,

> you've shown many a time that you can make

> thoughtful and intelligent contributions to

> debate, why do you have to resort to just

> recycling the same tired old trope over and over

> (something which is nonsense anyway, as I've

> mentioned elsewhere, your continual insistence

> that Brexit is really the fault of those who voted

> against it, and Trump is the fault of those who

> voted for Hillary, as if the working class are

> some mass of mentally defective sheep who can't be

> trusted to make sensible decisions but only vote

> in opposition to the great demon liberal urban

> elite).

>

> As for petitions, the one I signed is the one on

> the official government website which, having

> garnered more than a million signatures, means

> there has to be a debate on the issue in the

> Commons. It may not be much, but it's something.

>

> If you want to set up a petition banning

> self-styled working class heroes from dismissing

> people, who are simply expressing their

> well-founded disquiet about the state of the world

> at present, as urban elite liberal guardianistas

> (what a witty term, never heard that one before!)

> then put me down for a signature.

I have to say rendelharris, when it comes to 'same tired old troupe', many many of the people on here who were so outraged by Brexit and the election of Trump have found numerous ways to disengage from the fact that either of those things happened, and that it remains business as usual. It's almost like, millions of people have voted for something but actually they didn't mean to do that, and those on the losing side can now shout louder and set up petitions and that will solve everything. Let me just be flippant here, it won't.

I've never said that those who voted against Brexit or Trump caused those things to happen, it's far more complex than that, as you know. I'd certainly say they contributed by not offering an alternative narrative to the right wing rhetoric which claimed to be the saviour of the working classes. You need to appreciate the frustration from the working classes, most are well informed and had their own reasons for voting the way they did, but surely if a centrist alternative were available they would have given that a go rather than turn to the right?

It's just as simplistic to conclude that the working classes are actually quite extreme and prejudiced and knew exactly what they were voting for. There's an element of that perhaps, as their is also the element that many voted the way they did because they genuinely thought it would bring about positive change for them and their families. Either way, we are where we are, and a million signatures on a dubious petition isn't going to change that any time soon.

Louisa.

[ED - NAGAIUTB]

This is rich coming from the most Elitist poster on the entire forum!

Anyway, we made the top 10 locations voting http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38796357

[uncleglen]

Louisa said...'It's just as simplistic to conclude that the working classes are actually quite extreme and prejudiced and knew exactly what they were voting for'

I don't have to conclude anything about most of the 'liberal urban elite'- I KNOW that they are...'extreme and prejudiced and knew exactly what they were voting for...' to preserve the status quo- which they are doing very well out thank you very much....and the devil take the hindmost...that's charity for you

[Louisa]

UG indeed- the biggest globalists, the most United around the status quo, the ones who love supranational structures and the control that brings.

Louisa.

[remoaner]

rendelharris Wrote:

> If you want to set up a petition banning

> self-styled working class heroes from dismissing

> people, who are simply expressing their

> well-founded disquiet about the state of the world

> at present, as urban elite liberal guardianistas

> (what a witty term, never heard that one before!)

> then put me down for a signature.

Completely agree rendelh. The 'metropolitan liberal elite' tag is driving me round the bend. Hackneyed. Simplistic. Divisive.

[Louisa]

It's almost as hackneyed and simplistic as hearing wealthy London dwellers moaning about people from poor places using their democratic voice to vote for a political belief they find distasteful. Let's just ignore democracy shall we and sign a petition? That's going to solve everything.

The only reason wealthy London 'left wing' (dubious) types are so offended by the labels is because they ring true.

Louisa.

[Seabag]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Louisa said...'It's just as simplistic to conclude

> that the working classes are actually quite

> extreme and prejudiced and knew exactly what they

> were voting for'

> I don't have to conclude anything about most of

> the 'liberal urban elite'- I KNOW that they

> are...'extreme and prejudiced and knew exactly

> what they were voting for...' to preserve the

> status quo- which they are doing very well out

> thank you very much....and the devil take the

> hindmost...that's charity for you

I've asked you before, but please, in plain English could you inform me...

What does this actually mean? I've broken it down into bite size chunks, so you can copy and paste, then infill the gaps.

"I don't have to conclude anything about most of the 'liberal urban elite'-"

"I KNOW that they are...'extreme and prejudiced and knew exactly what they were voting for..."

"to preserve the status quo- which they are doing very well out thank you very much"

"....and the devil take the hindmost"

"...that's charity for you"

In anticipation

Thank you.

[????]

I'm signing it -couldn't agree more Louisa

Where were these petitions for Chinese President State visit? Israeli Citizens exclusion from 16 or so other countries etc.

[Seabag]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's almost as hackneyed and simplistic as hearing

> wealthy London dwellers moaning about people from

> poor places using their democratic voice to vote

> for a political belief they find distasteful.

> Let's just ignore democracy shall we and sign a

> petition? That's going to solve everything.

>

> The only reason wealthy London 'left wing'

> (dubious) types are so offended by the labels is

> because they ring true.

>

> Louisa.

It's fun on a not-much-to-to-day, to blather off with these tedious stereo types, to exercise your prejudices.

But it just switches people off, and that's counter productive, no?

Please try and engage creatively.

Or else post BLATHER BLATHER at the top of the post, so I can switch off accordingly.

[peckham_ryu]

These online petitions are way too easy.

10 actual signatures won by shoe leather and freezing afternoons at a trestle table on the high street are worth 100 keyboard warriors.

Let's start simple: petition to banish the infamous CCTV car. You've got the soup sorted; I'll bake some vegan brownies. Think I remember seeing a great recipe in the Guardian :)

[Borky]

tropespeak

The unassailable and probably Manga Carta given right to unashamedly take someone else's ideas that you read somewhere, sometime, somehow and then:

a) lazily repackage it into an offering that fits your preferred forum identity stance;

b) Go back to a) at every new opportunity

[????]

Borky Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> tropespeak

>

> The unassailable and probably Manga Carta given

> right to unashamedly take someone else's ideas

> that you read somewhere, sometime, somehow and

> then:

>

> a) lazily repackage it into an offering that fits

> your preferred forum identity stance;

> b) Go back to a) at every new opportunity

Where did you cut and paste that from? :)

[red devil]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Let's just ignore democracy shall we and sign a

> petition? That's going to solve everything.

Part of being in a democracy is the right to protest, one avenue of expressing protest in the modern world of social media is to sign an online petition. Whether it actually solves anything misses the point. If you don't like democracy move to North Korea, they also have a dictator with a dodgy barnet...

[????]

and part of living in a democracy is to be able point out the pointlessness and stupidity of such facile gestures on social media too :)

[Borky]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Borky Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > tropespeak

> >

> > The unassailable and probably Manga Carta given

> > right to unashamedly take someone else's ideas

> > that you read somewhere, sometime, somehow and

> > then:

> >

> > a) lazily repackage it into an offering that

> fits

> > your preferred forum identity stance;

> > b) Go back to a) at every new opportunity

>

>

> Where did you cut and paste that from? :)

I didn't.

And that is part of the problem.

[remoaner]

Lots of affluent people voted for Brexit / Trump, Louisa. I had the pleasure of sitting next to one of them on Boxing Day. Oxford educated. London based. Middle class. And very happy to spout some pretty noxious views about Muslims. This really is a lot more complicated than them vs us, don't you think?

[red devil]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> and part of living in a democracy is to be able

> point out the pointlessness and stupidity of such

> facile gestures on social media too :)

Absolutely Quids. Back in the day the then ageing, cynical 50-somethings probably thought the same about the ANL/RAR marches/gigs. Remember them?..;-)

[Louisa]

Seabag Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Louisa Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > It's almost as hackneyed and simplistic as

> hearing

> > wealthy London dwellers moaning about people

> from

> > poor places using their democratic voice to

> vote

> > for a political belief they find distasteful.

> > Let's just ignore democracy shall we and sign a

> > petition? That's going to solve everything.

> >

> > The only reason wealthy London 'left wing'

> > (dubious) types are so offended by the labels

> is

> > because they ring true.

> >

> > Louisa.

>

> It's fun on a not-much-to-to-day, to blather off

> with these tedious stereo types, to exercise your

> prejudices.

>

> But it just switches people off, and that's

> counter productive, no?

>

> Please try and engage creatively.

>

> Or else post BLATHER BLATHER at the top of the

> post, so I can switch off accordingly.

It's counter productive to exercise my Democratic right to question a pointless and lazy exercise in social media protest? If you say so. Many of us have switched off listening to repeatitive post and thread after the other, babbling on about the virtues of signing a pretty unimaginative petition, achieving nothing, rather than looking at the reasons why people voted the way they did, and why that contributed towards these odious people being put into power in the first place. Very much after the horse has bolted mentality about the whole thing. And to add insult to injury, the denial of recognition about that very fact. Yep, I am Using my Democratic right to question the point of a social media protest, next.. care to add anything constructive?

Louisa.

[red devil]

HOUSE!!...

[????]

red devil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ???? Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > and part of living in a democracy is to be able

> > point out the pointlessness and stupidity of

> such

> > facile gestures on social media too :)

>

> Absolutely Quids. Back in the day the then ageing,

> cynical 50-somethings probably thought the same

> about the ANL/RAR marches/gigs. Remember

> them?..;-)

But they involved going along and in some cases actually meeting people who disagreed with you and were more likely to express that disagreement physically. Signing petitions piece of pointless piss. Calling someone a wanker for reading Bulldog at West ham in the 80s took a bit more balls.