A successful May Trump meeting yesterday. Discuss

[keano77]

I realise the vocal part of the EDT bubble is anti-Trump but I thought Theresa May's meeting with Donald yesterday was a resounding success for Great Britain.

Feel a bit sorry for Her Majesty as I suspect a lot of pressure was imposed regarding a state visit.

Maybe a big thank you is due to Nigel Farage after all.

Discuss

PS stubbed my toe on my bed leg yesterday (very painful) must be Trump's fault

[Seabag]

Yes she did mention 'great' and 'special' in the first 15 seconds. Which was great & special to certain people, no doubt.

But really, two pariahs of their respective continents, looking for a backslap from their respective supporters.

May playing to the gallery of her own party.

I feel for the Queen, she'll hopefully set a hawk at Don's hairpiece.

[Alan Medic]

The EDT bubble? Your local?

[DovertheRoad]

I just thought the whole thing looked bizzarre and awkward. Which is where we find ourselves now tbh.

[intexasatthe moment]

To cheer ourselves up ,one of no doubt many parodies kindly shared with me by a friend

[Earl Aelfheah]

keano77 Wrote:

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> I realise the vocal part of the EDT bubble is

> anti-Trump

I think you'll find majority opinion world wide is anti-trump, including in his own country.

[KidKruger]

Holding hands though ?

[rendelharris]

I know, cringeworthy - reminded me of the American lady who marched up to James Joyce and said, "Sir, I want to shake the hand that wrote Ulysses!" Joyce replied, "It's done a lot of other things as well, madam."

[JohnL]

She made sure he said he was pro NATO

A few million in Estonia, Latvia etc. sighed with relief. Give her that.

[JohnL]

Also no torture ... as long as Mad Dog Mattis doesn't fancy it.

[nxjen]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> Holding hands though ?

If I was TM (thankfully I'm not) I would be scrubbing my hand more obsessively than Lady Macbeth

[JohnL]

nxjen Wrote:

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> KidKruger Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Holding hands though ?

>

> If I was TM (thankfully I'm not) I would be

> scrubbing my hand more obsessively than Lady

> Macbeth

It's that sister thing - Trump now thinks they're related.

[red devil]

The OP stubbing their toe seems an apt metaphor for our post-Brexit existentialist crisis, a pause of nothingness, then the pain as a dystopian reality takes hold. As for the meeting I thought it was a bag of shite...

[Louisa]

Far too easy for the urban liberal elite to jump on the bandwagon here. Part of the cause of the problem. Brexit and Trump were exacerbated by the self entitled guardians of all things righteous, siting in urban ivory tower baffled as to why people don't think, feel and act the same way they do. Doesn't solve anything, just reinforces extreme views and creates more divide. Nauseating.

Louisa.

[????]

yup

[Loz]

Trump is a businessman. May was clever enough to treat him as one, rather than as a politician. Went in with a defined agenda, put potential deal on the table, extracted a few concessions, massaged his ego and finished up with the offer of a business jolly to meet the CEO.

[rendelharris]

Louisa Wrote:

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> Far too easy for the urban liberal elite to jump

> on the bandwagon here. Part of the cause of the

> problem. Brexit and Trump were exacerbated by the

> self entitled guardians of all things righteous,

> siting in urban ivory tower baffled as to why

> people don't think, feel and act the same way they

> do. Doesn't solve anything, just reinforces

> extreme views and creates more divide. Nauseating.

>

>

> Louisa.

Ah, the good old Alice in Wonderland world where those really responsible for Brexit are those who voted against it, and it's the people who voted for Hillary who are responsible for Trump. I don't agree with those who voted for Brexit or for Trump, but I do give them the credit of being able to think for themselves and vote how they see fit, instead of patronisingly saying that they're not responsible for the results of their actions.

[Loz]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> Ah, the good old Alice in Wonderland world where those really responsible for Brexit are those who

> voted against it, and it's the people who voted for Hillary who are responsible for Trump. I don't

> agree with those who voted for Brexit or for Trump, but I do give them the credit of being able

> to think for themselves and vote how they see fit, instead of patronisingly saying that they're not

> responsible for the results of their actions.

When you frame it like that, you are right.

But if you look deeper, when you look at the current woes of the Labour party and (to a lesser and slightly different extent) the Democrat, you have to ask, why have a certain set of what were previously supporters moved away and voted for a different set of people? Why did parts of the UK that benefited quite a lot from the EU vote against it? Why does Labour's northern heartland suddenly look like slipping away from them? Why have parts of America that benefited from Obamacare and other Democrat-style policies vote for the sort of millionaire businessman that should, on paper, be anathema to them? And let's not muck around, we're talking (predominantly white) working class.

It's no great earth shattering revelation to say that over the past half-century, 'The Left' have moved from a grass-roots labour movement in the UK, and little-guy vs big-guy populism (in the original sense) in the US, through to a thoroughly urban identity-politics movement. So, feeling unloved, the working-class lot have looked around. You could even say they're a bit on the rebound. They are certainly sick of being taken for granted.

So, yes, they were indeed able to think for themselves and did vote how they saw fit. But until Labour and the Democrats realise how they got into that position in the first place, they're never going to woo the working class back.

But maybe, just maybe, they don't actually want them back. But that would be electoral suicide, wouldn't it?

[rendelharris]

Plenty of sense there and yes, there's much to be said about Labour's move away from its heartland - though that's part of the point in a way, just because voters feel betrayed by one party, rightly or wrongly, it doesn't mean their decision to go with a movement which appears in opposition to that party is just some form of reaction to that. That feels too simplistic to me and negates the ability of the working class to actually make proper informed decisions...

It shouldn't be forgotten that back in the '70s when Labour was much more the party of the working class and the unions that a vast swathe of the workers voted for Thatcher because they didn't like that either, that wasn't a vote against the urban elite - for it, if anything.

There are no easy answers to explain the discontent so evident at present, I'm just tired of it all being blamed on one group (who aren't in any way as homogenous and all powerful as some seem to think anyway). Case in point last week, there was a politico on the radio confidently informing us that the Brexit vote was a vote against "the liberal elite propoganda we have pumped out of the BBC." Not one mention of the fact that the most popular newspapers in the country spent the whole Brexit campaign pumping out a flow of personal attacks on Remainers, skewed (or often downright lying) statistics, racist scaremongering etc and the effect that had on the popular vote. What has more influence on the working class vote, Today on Radio Four or the Daily Mail? Discuss.

[jaywalker]

keano77 Wrote:

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> I realise the vocal part of the EDT bubble is

> anti-Trump but I thought Theresa May's meeting

> with Donald yesterday was a resounding success for

> Great Britain.

vocal opposed to those who know without needing to work out what they think by risking saying (their common genius)

bubble opposed to those who recognise the whole picture (without having to say what it is)

anti-Trump opposed to those who have not read any satires by Bret Easton Ellis

Great Britain opposed to declining marginal country with little interest for the USA other than as a pawn in a nuclear chess game (nice to have as a potential gambit).

resounding success as opposed to any other clich? going

[vito]

THIS IS WRONG.

You might wanna hide and pretend to have a normal conversation about it all but it s wrong.

We are talking about money basically and You find normal that a PM goes hands in hands with someone like Trump for business. So now suddenly we are on Trumps and Putin side, we want more nuclear weapons. Is that what we, as human being not as UK or EU, want? and all of this for money?

Where are the values the ethics? Will You be happy to see your sons and daughters walking hands in hands with some street gangster even if it was "just for money"? Are we at this now?

This is wrong and I want to believe we all know this deep inside.

Was Europe, a place where UK has had always special license to do everything, such a bad thing that we, in order to leave right now, had to go with people like Trump and Putin? Are we forgetting that Scotland, Wales and Ireland have been practically living on the European community money?

Is there a need to take distances from Trump saying (after what s happening at the minute in US) that UK has a different policy regarding refugees and there is a plan to take in Syrian refugees just couple of weeks after being in South Arabia licking the local gangster feet as for Trupm?? Saying we do care about refugees while selling weapons to South Arabia, one of the larger provider of arms to various rebel groups over there????

Are the people of this country really pretend not to see all of this? Are we really gonna pretend not to see our daughter walking hands in hands with the local gangster?

Does it really make sense this "leaving europe at all costs" even if we gonna go Trump Putin etc? Was it Europe worse than this??

KEANO77 Are we seriously gonna discuss discuss:" a successful May Trump meeting Yesterday?

I saw a pic from US on the BBC website where a Young american Woman was protesting at the airport where ppl are banned and arrested cause of religion in a nation were Human being are walled out from the country, Oil viaducts are open in the face of natives, a basic hospital care is now denied to the poor, and women can be just grabbed by the p.... ..anyway this Young woman in the pic was holding a sign saying:

"Disobey pls, This is WRONG"

I really wanna finish with the idea of that girl and her protest. It makes me believe there are still decent human being out there and maybe there could be still a better future for everybody.

I personally do not think Europe is worse than this. If UK had to leave i was hoping it was for something better..otherwise it just makes no sense.

I d like also to mention among the successes Of Theresa May in this meeting another one that nobody has mentioned so far. I Personally think holding Trump s hands in a place where women can just be grabbed by the p....was finally excellent strategy..:)

I must give to her and also KEANO77..

I agree with other comments before: I really do feel for The Queen!feel sorry ..it s all a huge disgrace. this is wrong

[????]

I think you'll find that it was St Obama who sold arms to the Saudi's at record levels - you need to isolate which particular thing is angering you the most - Trump, May, Brexit, the English, the EDF; there are plenty of candidates -and make some coherent points about it...

[Jenny1]

I can highly recommend the repeat of the 'Archive on 4' 'Frost on Nixon' currently available on the i-player. Useful as we meditate on the many faces of the US Presidency over the years - and what that means for us now.

A real insight into the administration of 'Tricky Dicky'. Particularly fascinated by the close aides who knew when not to implement his explicit and adamant orders.

Rest assured vito. My moral compass is reacting much as yours is at the moment.

[jaywalker]

It might perhaps be said that the meeting with Trump is looking ever so slightly less successful as the days pass since they held hands. May's refusal yesterday to condemn the treatment of refugees was a huge mistake (hence the backtracking today).

I am reading Edward Wilson's wonderful historical spy-novel reconstructions of our relations with the US during the 50s and 60s (currently The Midnight Swimmer). Truly scary.

[vito]

???? Wrote:

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> I think you'll find that it was St Obama who sold

> arms to the Saudi's at record levels - you need to

> isolate which particular thing is angering you the

> most - Trump, May, Brexit, the English, the EDF;

> there are plenty of candidates -and make some

> coherent points about it...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/13/us-halts-arms-transfer-saudi-arabia-civilian-casualties-yemen/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/13/eu-criticises-british-arms-sales-saudi-arabia

Before asking me (????) what anger me the most in between Trump may and brexit (which i find completely irrelevant and anyway this things are different but go in only one direction) pls answer any of my questions. In my thread i can easily count 5 to 10 questions..

Trump anyway doesn t anger me. He has been elected. it does anger me the idea that in such a vaste country Trump and Clinton were apparently the best 2 candidates. In all US nobody better than them?

TM is just enjoying the ride. Against Brexit before the referendum ..pro brexit after and once she was in charge.

Brexit itself does not anger me at all. I respect decision of UK although it s my personal impression, i might be wrong, low QI, low income low culture ppl have decided for you but once again, I respect that.

Eventually I do not respect the fact that someone as TM against Brexit in the first place and never elected is now giving us her personal interpretation of what UK ppl want. Still nearly half of the country doesn t want brexit and possibly half of those who wanted brexit didn t want hard brexit...so why are we doing it this way? I think there should have been a discussion on what do next after brexit. Find it obscene TM is deciding what to do next on her own..

The only thing that really angers me is the referendum itself and MR Cameron. I do not know what is better for UK to do and it s not up to me deciding. Even if the outcome of the referendum was different I think asking ppl what to do on such a complex matter, where nobody had an idea of the consequences not even the most brilliant mind on the planet and possibly even now we have no idea about what happens next, it was irresponsible ....as much as leaving some state secret documents in a hotel room or your daughters in a pub..

Still Dear ??? i d like to have an answer from You.

All this chasing Trump, South Arabia and Putin is it better than being in Europe with license to do pretty much what You want??? yes or not pls..