British Airways update

[DovertheRoad]

As a longstanding loyal and frequent customer of what used to the the world's favourite airline it's sad to watch them slowly erode their value proposition. In the last few years they have started charging to select seats, for hold luggage and significantly less (almost 30%) Avios points per ?1 spent. This January has seen another USP go - by charging for food and drink on all short haul flights and hoping to win people over with a menu from M&S - another once great British brand that is as tired and stodgy as BA itself.

All businesses have to move with the times but it feels like death by a thousand cuts from a customer perspective. That said I'll probably still keep using them for long haul as they command most of the prime routes anywhere from UK.

By contrast Easyjet seem to be going upmarket and recent experiences have been brilliant, even in the way they handled a cancelled flight that required an overnight stay. They've also invested heavily in technology and the app and website are light years better.

moan over/ discuss

[Lowlander]

The rot set in around the mid-2000s when EasyJet and all started making an impact. My last decent flight with SAS for instance in 2001 from Heathrow to Arlanda was solidly old-school - aperitifs before lunch, wine with a proper lunch; then a digestif - all this in economy.

Now that the dust has settled, Easyjet come out well for everyone - if you arrive early and they have space for instance, you can board an earlier flight for free.

Ryanair, whilst I have never actually flown with them, see to have toned down their anti-customer rhetoric and people speak well of them.

The winners? The average customer. Apart from free drinks - which were irrelevant to non-drinkers and the majority of early morning passengers - who on earth misses the dire food they offered of late. All airports these days have an M&S / Pret and budget eateries.

The main problem I can see is the fare/fee structure. I don't care what the tax/security or fuel surcharge is, I just want one ticket price and, if necessary, a simple and cheap hold luggage fee.

Lastly, major airlines are real dinosaurs. BA should have gone under in 2008/2009. Pure sleight of hand that they still exist.

[Loz]

British Airways pays its pilots and flight crew over twice as much as Easyjet and Ryanair.

Discuss.

[malumbu]

24th January marked the day that Easyjet took over South terminal Gatwick. 15 years ago this was the preserve of BA, and others used North, which was full of charter flights. South at that point was far more upmarket.

I flew with Easyjet on that day. It was fine. The plane was fairly new. They've put new seats in to give you a few more cm leg room. Last time I flew with BA it was a tatty jumbo. The audiovisual was playing up. They used to be my airline of choice. They rescued me from India 20 years ago. They once over booked, but were so so generous when we were not allowed to fly. I could take hold luggage on short haul and get the odd beer or two.

All gone, and generally more exspensive than EJ.

The Airline I really hate is Ryanair, and still being stonewalled over a commpensation claim. Help please.

[DovertheRoad]

funnily enough Malumbu...as of 25th Jan this week.... BA have moved ALL flights back to Gatwick South terminal.

There will be no more flights from Gatwick North. Better for customers in that it is by the trains. Not such a good space for BA staff though by all accounts. I think Virgin will be taking over their big space at GW north.

[DaveR]

My perspective is almost the exact opposite to the OP - I've always used budget airlines (except Ryanair) for short haul non business, but have used BA a number of times in recent years because prices have come down whilst retaining an edge in terms of customer service, in particular, and also having the best time slots. Haven't flown easyjet for a while now because not competitive on price. Generally agree with Lowlander above i.e. customers have benefited from market changes and carriers generally upping their games. I haven't had a really bad flight for years (though I would caution against transiting in Amman, no mater how cheap the fare is).

[TheCat]

On short haul, I actually prefer being able to purchase something I might actually want to eat, rather than being thrown some awful packaged sandwich, and having no choice about it.

That said, while I'd still use BA on long Haul, on short haul its a different story. I booked the family flights to Portugal last week for summer holiday, and EasyJet and BA came up as roughly the same price for the flight times I was after. Whereas previously I would always have chosen BA in that circumstance, I actively chose EasyJet for a few reasons...their planes typically seem more modern, there's less risk of union strike action, and the EasyJet staff actually don't seem to resent the fact that you are there....

[Loz]

... plus Easyjet's new self check-in at Gatwick is really rather cool.

[Cardelia]

DovertheRoad Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> All businesses have to move with the times but it

> feels like death by a thousand cuts from a

> customer perspective. That said I'll probably

> still keep using them for long haul as they

> command most of the prime routes anywhere from

> UK.

Right there, that's why BA will continue the 'death by a thousand cuts' approach. As long as people will use them regardless, they know they can keep cutting costs.

For most people the price of the ticket is what determines which airline they choose. In order for BA to compete on price against the low cost carriers they had to cut out a lot of the 'premium' offerings which used to distinguish them from the LCCs. It's a reflection of the times we live in: for short-haul travel the number of people willing to pay extra money for a better quality of product is no longer enough to sustain a viable airline.

Loz: BA cabin crew on the newer Mixed Fleet contracts are nowhere near twice the amount paid by the LCCs. Staff turnover is incredibly high on these contracts because most crew realise they can get a better wage elsewhere.

[Loz]

Cardelia Wrote:

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> Loz: BA cabin crew on the newer Mixed Fleet contracts are nowhere near twice the amount paid

> by the LCCs. Staff turnover is incredibly high on these contracts because most crew realise they can

> get a better wage elsewhere.

Apologies, that is true. I did mean the staff on the old contracts as the new contracts were BA's response to try to cut costs to get ticket prices down.

The main problem for BA is that businesses smartened up on air travel. People flew BA, regardless of cost, because they weren't paying! Most airlines (and BA especially so) "get by" on economy class and make all their profit on business and first class tickets. BA were the business-persons airline of choice, mainly because of the great rewards you got on Executive Club, plus businesses liked them because of kickbacks they got. In the last decade or so, businesses have really cut down on travel costs, embracing the Easyjets and Ryanairs and often cutting back on flying altogether.

[DovertheRoad]

Interesting that 5 years ago it was a race to the bottom as airlines differentiated on cost. But that now it's back to service again. BA have brought prices down but cut services. Easyjet already had a lean business model but have recently moved uptown. And Ryanair, whilst more customer friendly are still very much in budget territory.

Tbh I liked the whole old school flying experience and perhaps am one of the few prepared to pay more for a premium offering. It's just like getting on the bus now.

[Loz]

DovertheRoad Wrote:

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> Tbh I liked the whole old school flying experience and perhaps am one of the few prepared to pay more

> for a premium offering. It's just like getting on the bus now.

Me too, at least for long haul. Forget about hoping your knees don't touch the seat in front, most of the time your feet, fully stretched don't. Chuck in airport lounges and premium boarding (and even a limo to and from the airport in some cases) and it's worth every penny.

And, if you consider that the price of long haul fares haven't changed much at all in the last 20-25 years, business class prices are not bad value.

And considering business class on long haul can take up half the plane nowadays, it's much more common. First class is pretty much dying out as well, which is interesting.