Our Special Relationship

[jaywalker]

In diplomacy countries often seek alliances with others with whom they profoundly disagree. For example, currently the UK with Saudi Arabia, and we are imbricated in Russia to a considerable degree (e.g. gas supply, not to mention BP on whose dividends many UK pension funds depend). Our foreign policy has been pragmatist in this sense: if the country is not a direct threat then alliance may be deemed to be in our interest even if we have doubts about human rights or even if the other country has only localised imperialist intentions (the case for deals with Russia here looking particularly weak). Of course this policy often gets us into trouble: most spectacularly the Munich agreement.

But there has also been a longer term shift in policy that is now, however, being reversed. The great credit of the Heath government (and the opposite is true of the appalling Blair government) was its distrust of the USA. The alliance with a stable Europe, integrated economically and to some limited extent politically, was seen rightly as a counter-weight to the realisation that the 'special' relationship placed the UK in a dominated (one might say hegemonised) position. The merit of the Heath approach (for which the Tories never really forgave him, and against which the policies of the unspeakable Thatcher personified) was to recognise that the UK was no longer a world power and should rather embed itself in the modest and enlightened European social and cultural norms which are opposed to those now becoming dominant in the United States.

But now we have a government that will rip up our relations with Europe and seek special treatment from an isolationist USA. An isolationism that will (having of course failed at home) feel the absolute imperative of purifying beyond its borders.

As tweet follows tweet - today a 2000 mile wall - could we register our opposition to May having anything to do with Trump? Or do we think that the USA is truly our friend?

[Jules-and-Boo]

It's truly terrifying, the damage Trump has already done. The idea of the European union which epitomises ideals of coherence and tolerance was ruined by the way it was run/ governed. It has left a bitterness such that so many people would rather be without it and it's a crying shame.

How this ends does not look good at all. The idea of May aligning us with Trump is just dreadful. IF there is anything that can be done to prevent Trump spreading his beliefs and infecting the rest of the world, it should be done. The damage he has the ability to cause would take forever to undo....unless it does have the opposite effect - and actually bring the world together, in unity - against what he represents.

[malumbu]

Good post and very illuminating. From my knowledge we are fortunately not dependent on Russia, sharing North Sea infrastructure with Norway who still have heaps of gas, with two further pipelines to the Norweigian fields. Germany, Poland and Ukrane far worse. We can and do buy from the main European hub and can get methane molecules from anyone that supplies to this as well as ship the stuff in from dodgy places such as Qatar, and .... Russia. Anyway a totally unecessary response from me apart that we can distance ourself slightly from those shocking war criminals (Russia). Something (Syria) that Obama and Sen Clinton did try (and like the rest of the West failed).

[keano77]

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's truly terrifying, the damage Trump has

> already done. The idea of the European union which

> epitomises ideals of coherence and tolerance was

> ruined by the way it was run/ governed. It has

> left a bitterness such that so many people would

> rather be without it and it's a crying shame.

>

> How this ends does not look good at all. The idea

> of May aligning us with Trump is just dreadful. IF

> there is anything that can be done to prevent

> Trump spreading his beliefs and infecting the rest

> of the world, it should be done. The damage he has

> the ability to cause would take forever to

> undo....unless it does have the opposite effect -

> and actually bring the world together, in unity -

> against what he represents.

A bit of perspective required here.

Trump has only been in the job three days. I'm not sure what you mean by the damage he's already done and I'm not sure what you mean by how this ends does not look good at all. Nobody knows how this will end. If Trump brings jobs back to many depressed areas of the US and restores the idea of the American Dream that by working hard you can get on in life then he ought to be regarded as one of the most successful US presidents they've had.

Give the man time.

[malumbu]

Reminds me all of a certain gentleman in 1930s Germany. He certainly restored national pride, supported national interests and reversed the impacts of recession. Not that I know my history well enough, nor should I suggest President Trump is anything like Chancellor Hitler. Whilst we are all watching the border to the South there is a risk of war with Canada - as prophesised by both Seth Macfarlane and Parker and Stone.

[keano77]

Steady on malumbu, I think you are getting a bit carried away here. As I said, let's keep some perspective here.

Trump is not necessarily some sort of anti-Christ, he just doesn't confronm to the liberal mindset.

War with Canada? Please explain.

[Loz]

Keano... I suggest you read more of malumbu's posts. They are usually deluged in satire.

(Occasionally they're not, though, so read them carefully).

[Earl Aelfheah]

He's reinstated a ban on any federal funding to NGOs providing information about abortions and instructed his press secretary to report 'alternative facts'. More generally his election legitimises much of his extremely divisive campaign rhetoric and sends out a dangerous message to the world about 'Western' democratic values (although that last bit admittedly, depends on your point of view). I think for day four (?) it's pretty damaging already.

[Earl Aelfheah]

...oh, and just this morning he seems to be saying he's supportive of torturing terrorists. So that further undermines the moral legitimacy of the US should it wish to challenge regimes over their records of human rights abuses.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Seeing as it's still week 1 though, there is, I'm sure, plenty more to come.

[Earl Aelfheah]

...and he doesn't believe in climate change (I believe he's claimed previously that it's a Chinese conspiracy), so you can add that to the 'damaging' pile.

[Alan Medic]

Would someone explain to me what's so special about this relationship? They all refer to it but it seems entirely meaningless. Is it make believe?

[TheCat]

Trump is abhorrent, of that I have no doubt, but I find it interesting/confusing/amusing that many of the people I've heard say we should have nothing to do with the President of the World's largest economy (and ~15% of the UK's trade), are also the same people bemoaning us turning our backs on 'international collaboration', and the loss of trade we might suffer from Brexit.

So does the UK 'welcome anyone'...except those with whom we personally disagree?

[JohnL]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> Would someone explain to me what's so special

> about this relationship? They all refer to it but

> it seems entirely meaningless. Is it make believe?

Not a trump supporter by any means but he's courting the UK

- that bust of Churchill made obvious in his office for

instance.

Sky mention Obama putting us at the back of the queue again this

morning - it's not of if he said that as Cameron told him to.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I agree it's ridiculous to suggest we shouldn't trade with the US just because we don't like the current president.

[Earl Aelfheah]

As for the 'special relationship' I can't be the only one who cringes when I hear UK politicians talking about it? It's so clearly something that only the UK cares about, it comes across as so needy - "you do like us don't you, we're special aren't we? Aren't we? Say we are..."

[????]

As tweet follows tweet - today a 2000 mile wall - could we register our opposition to May having anything to do with Trump? Or do we think that the USA is truly our friend?

Great 'strawman' Jaywalker

[JohnL]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As for the 'special relationship' I can't be the

> only one who cringes when I hear UK politicians

> talking about it? It's so clearly something that

> only the UK cares about, it comes across as so

> needy - "you do like us don't you, we're special

> aren't we? Aren't we? Say we are..."

It was real ... but you weren't supposed to mention it.

we've changed.

[Earl Aelfheah]

.

[malumbu]

It was such a special relationship that they didn't trust us with nuke technology meaning that we had to go it alone in the 50s. That said as we were all lefties they did it for our own good. Discuss!

We were such a special friend that we shipped out agent orange during the Viet Nam war due to unrest in the US.

Ah history eh?

[JohnL]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It was such a special relationship that they

> didn't trust us with nuke technology meaning that

> we had to go it alone in the 50s. That said as

> we were all lefties they did it for our own good.

> Discuss!

>

> We were such a special friend that we shipped out

> agent orange during the Viet Nam war due to unrest

> in the US.

>

> Ah history eh?

Nukes are like Warp speed in Star Trek (but not as benign)

You have to develop it yourself first. I think (to prove yourself).

[Jules-and-Boo]

record so far;

New term for lies "Alternative Truth"

No funding for abortion (whether you personally agree with this or not)

Instruction to build wall and sanction Mexico to tune of $16billion

Instruction to remove all reference to global warming (Scientists are next to demonstrate)

Dakota Pipleline

Advocating torture

Banning migrants from the 7 nations

And whatever other little gems we get today.... it's just gaining momentum

but as you say, Keano... "Give the man time".

I just hope that May will not bow down and be his little puppet as Blair did with Bush. That 'Special Relationship' was not one built on respect at all and should not be a model for any new relationship built between the new PM and the new President.

[red devil]

I'm sure Trump can't wait to stroke the Downing Street pussy...

[JohnL]

red devil Wrote:

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> I'm sure Trump can't wait to stroke the Downing

> Street pussy...

>

> https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/M

> i2coQa8xjhKo1ptnnN4Gkiy9ps/fit-in/1024x1024/filter

> s:format_auto-!!-:strip_icc-!!-/2011/04/17/4/192/1

> 922243/f45a179251a8b5c5_royalcat2/i/Pictures-Larry

> -Downing-Street-Cat.jpg

Awwww it's Larry

Where's his rival Palmerston - together below

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/12/27/JS103485314_Paul%20Grover_Larry%20No10%20having%20a%20fight%20with%20Palmerston%20Foreign%20Office-large_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bq3i-P_4EEvYwG_oqoG8OUF6TlO_uqRzE5_DFQcS-QDDY.jpg

[Jules-and-Boo]

he's a rat catcher ;-)