Dinner Tantrums. Please help!

[bee74]

It seems that problems never go away even when away. We are in Kenya doing some work at an orphanage but I m still struggling with the dinner tantrums we had at home. Lunch is kind of ok, mostly because we eat together and have pasta, I think. But dinner is normally not a plesant experience for all involved. At home we can normally get away with it if we have fish fingers or soya steaks, but here neither is available so we are left with eggs (we don't eat meat) and I can't give him an egg a day! Sometimes he loves lentil soup with cocunut and sometimes he refuses it. And when he refuses food things just go from bad to worse: I keep offering, getting frustrated, he keeps refusing, getting frustrated. Then there might be a tantrum, crying, etc. I often relent and offer yoghurt and/or a banana. This feels wrong because I imagine he will learn that if he sticks it out long enough, he will get his nana and yogu. But in the last couple of days, I've thought actually he should start learning that if he doesn't eat what's on offer that's it. I seem to waste so much food and in a place like this it feels even more wrong than in Camberwell. But that also feels cruel... I don't know what to do anymore. At times, he also demands to have some entertainment at the table like a book or at worst a video... please don't cringe! I think maybe 6.30 is too late. Maybe he is too tired. Maybe he is not hungry if he had a good lunch. But maybe he is just being fussy and surely i should help him to appreciate a variety of foods and sets some boundaries? What shall I do?

[nunheadmum]

Sounds like you're doing very worthy work and lots of respect for taking your kids too. This kind of thing is hard enough at home - I dread to think what it feels like in that environment and without the failsafes you have at home.

I'm no expert, but I always go for kids dinner at 5pm. It probably depends what time other meals are at - we do lunch at 12. I do find that if they get over hungry, they eat less and are much more fussy.

Afraid I'm of the approach that I put it on the table and if they don't eat it, I don't offer anything else (unless I know they're getting over being ill or I've messed them around on timings or similar). I try to offer one thing a day that I know is a sure thing - you mention pasta or eggs in your case - but then the other option is take it or leave it. In the early days I did allow a desert of something like yoghurt or fruit regardless but a regulated amount that wouldn't be a meal in itself. The other approach I sometimes use is that they can have bread and butter if I think the meal was something they really didn't like - but I try not to let it become a habit.

I think the thing is that they are so quick to pick up on any doubt or weakness on your part and use it to their advantage. It always feels to me like I need to decide on my approach (somehow balancing tough mummy and nice mummy, not always easy!) and then stick with it - being consistent helps. I think we sometimes overestimate just how much they need foodwise to survive. I remember my mum being told by her GP in the 60's that he'd never heard of a young child starving itself - they're programmed to survive. But they will try and survive their way, if they can!

[Moos]

How old is your LO?

My experience (mine is 3) is that my son won't eat well when he's tired, so you could try moving supper earlier. Also, he won't eat a big supper if he's had a big lunch, so we tend to have a snacky/dippy supper if he has had a hot lunch. I also ban TV and toys at table because otherwise as soon as he's had a few mouthsful to slake the immediate hunger he immediately starts playing and doesn't eat.

Sorry to say but I do think he's probably holding out for the banana and yoghurt - it's a tough call to make though, I know.

Best of luck with your conundrum!

[Moos]

Cross-posted with nhm.

[Pickle]

What an amazing person you must be to juggle being a Mum to a small child and volunteering in an orphanage, fantastic!

It sounds like the root of your problem may be tiredness - I know in our household dinner is a nightmare if the kids are tired, so we tend to eat at about 5:30pm (earlier when they were smaller, they're 2.5 and nearly 4 now). I'm also very strict with the "don't eat it, don't get anything else" approach, something I swore I'd never do after being subjected to it by my very strict mother when I was small - I've now accepted the fact that I have turned into my Mum!

Try not to give in too easily, small children are cunning ;-)

[The Nappy Lady]

As above, 20 mins max, then take away what's not eaten & nothing else unless a good effort has been made. They soon learn. Used to have huge stress with our first over meal rimes but I just don't pander to it any more.

[Curmudgeon]

if it helps a 2 year old will eat approximately 10 tablespoons worth of food a day, this is averaged over about a week to 10 days and include all and any snacks. It's not really much.

I think we judge weaning and small children by our 3 meals a day philosophy and it normally just doesn't ring true. In general children eat one, what we would consider, proper meal in 48 hours - so one day they'll have a decent lunch and then not again for a couple of days and then we think we've got problems.

Offer food and if he doesn't eat it do not get concerned, he won't starve as he is eating - maybe he's a once a day child and just needs a little snack

[alieh]

I tend to offer fruit and yoghurt at the end of every meal whether he's eaten well or not, so it's not a reward or the opposite...it's just that every meal has a main course, fruit and bit of yoghurt. In terms of the main course, I also choose things that are likely to go over well (so fairly limited menu!), give him some time to eat it, and calmly take it away when he appears done even if he's barely touched it. If he starts throwing food or dumping the plate, I assume he's done and take it away. On the rare occasions he actually wants to keep eating, he'll shout and I give him one more chance to eat it.

I think an earlier dinner time, if possible, might help too. Mine has dinner at nursery at 4:00 or 4:30 (!) and then sometimes a little snack when he gets home (just a banana or cereal or a bit of cheese).

The other thought is that is he still having milk/breastmilk in the afternoon? If he has a small appetite, this might be enough to put him off his supper? S doesn't really have milk during the day anymore, except for a bit in a cup before bedtime (his choice, I offer it in the morning and usually before nap though have started to give up because he never wants it). Not sure what the advice is re: milk for toddlers nearing two, but you could experiment and see if you avoid breastfeeding in the afternoon whether it helps his appetite at dinnertime.

Good luck! It is amazing how well you are dealing with all of the challenges of being in Kenya with a toddler! It is hard enough here in East Dulwich!

[bee74]

Thank you all for the advice.

Curmudgeon, that is actually really interesting and yes, I do tend to judge by my standards, which is bad as I tend to eat far too much!

Alie knows me which is why she is mentioning breastfeeding. I should have actually said: my boy is 22 months and he still feeds at least four times a day - when he wakes up, before his nap at 1 (which is almost straight after lunch), after his nap (a couple of hours later) and before bedtime. He eats a lot of fruit (although there isn't much variety here and he is getting a bit bored of bananas) and he is also drinking lots of milk and water whilst here.

SO from what you are all saying it doesn't seem to be a problem, I m just making it a problem. He won't starve and he is getting plenty. I just wanted to set up some good habits so I think that I will try an earlier dinner time when back in the UK, because here we only get home at 6 from the orphange. And I will try to offer food, not make a fuss and take it away calmly if not eaten within ten minutes or so. M doesn't really sit down for very long streches of time... And I will offer yoghurt and banana ad hoc, depending on the feel of the situation or maybe all the time, I will have to consider that one...

THANK YOU again.

[marscapone]

We also have problems with our 15 month old son. We eat together as a family at 6.30 and it really is a bit too late but can't really be much earlier. I find that sometimes he eats well and sometimes not. Less to do with whether he is actually hungry or not, and more to do with whether he likes the food or is tired, I think. Like Alieh, he gets yoghurt/banana after every dinner. Sometimes when he's refusing his dinner the banana works to take the edge off his hunger/tiredness/grumpiness and he will go back to the main meal once he's finished the banana

For what it's worth, I'm sure we did lots of no-no's with older son - pandering to his fussiness a certain amount, pouring fruit puree over his main meal etc. Now aged 4 he is a great eater, loves vegetables, has a very varied diet and wants to try anything new. I think your son sounds like a typical toddler and I'm sure things will improve in time whatever approach you take

[crystal7]

marscapone Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> We also have problems with our 15 month old son.

> We eat together as a family at 6.30 and it really

> is a bit too late but can't really be much

> earlier. I find that sometimes he eats well and

> sometimes not. Less to do with whether he is

> actually hungry or not, and more to do with

>

>

> For what it's worth, I'm sure we did lots of

> no-no's with older son - pandering to his

> fussiness a certain amount, pouring fruit puree

> over his main meal etc. Now aged 4 he is a great

> eater, loves vegetables, has a very varied diet

> and wants to try anything new. I think your son

> sounds like a typical toddler and I'm sure things

> will improve in time whatever approach you take

That's really great to hear. My daughter (20 months) has always been a very fussy eater. She is quite small for her age and for a long time gained almost no weight. Her eating and weight gain have improveed but I don't have the confidence to take meals away after a certain amount of time and then offer nothing else at the moment :-$. Like others I always offer fruit and yoghurt at the end of a meal regardless of what's been eaten. I'm hoping this is a(nother) stage that she'll grow out of and soon I'll be able to reason with her/bribe her...

Bee74 it must be so hard dealing with mealtime dramas as well as being somewhere new and very different. I would try an earlier meal time if possible and as others have said reduce the amount of milk M has. If he has a biggish meal at lunch time then he wont eat much in the evening anyway.

[Moos]

marscapone Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> For what it's worth, I'm sure we did lots of

> no-no's with older son - pandering to his

> fussiness a certain amount, pouring fruit puree

> over his main meal etc. Now aged 4 he is a great

> eater, loves vegetables, has a very varied diet

> and wants to try anything new. I think your son

> sounds like a typical toddler and I'm sure things

> will improve in time whatever approach you take

I love reading posts like this - it's so easy to get worried that your small child's crappy eating habits will develop into a full blown eating disorder, and that he'll be the only 35-year-old in the world still refusing vegetables!

Thank you.

[alieh]

Bee, it would be interesting too if you end up chatting with any Kenyan mothers with similar aged children to see what they eat. I am massively guessing, but I imagine the variety of diets there must be quite limited, lots of the same grains/pulses on repeat, etc. Might help to ease all of our minds that toddlers around the world grow and thrive with much more restricted diets than we have available here!

[GinaG3]

Toddlers should come with a warning about meals..

They seem rather typical in habits. Don't worry about what your child eats (of course try to avoid excessive amounts of sugar and salt) they are programmed to survive.

At 21 months we have the tantrums and tears at the dinner table. I'm the sort of person that hoped my daughter would appreciate all my home cooked meals and the time I take to prepare my food too. I spent hours preparing home made vegetable and fruit purees when we were weaning and she always loved them. Butternut squash, broccoli, peas, turnip, quite literally any vegetable in the world! When we were past the squishing stage and onto proper solids, everything fell from under my feet. I never wanted a child that lived on fish fingers, waffles and baked beans but would you guess thats what I got. EVERY toddler does this. Every toddler feels the need to throw tantrums when food is placed in front of them. Every toddler does it every now and again, some do it everyday.

We've been through phase after phase already of refusing to eat, asking us to take the plate as soon as its put down, wanting tomato ketchup on everything! We have weeks she is brilliant, tries new thing, doesn't mess around, finishes the plate instead of playing with it. But in the end I think they all get bored of the varied meals on rotation. We are in waffle and fish finger stage right now, without the fish finger. Typical! So thats a waffle and waffle dinner then?! But she also loves, homemade tomato pasta, pasta bake, roasted veg with pasta, curry, stew and rice. Lots of things when she isn't in a phase. New food phases seem to be okay, we have a little tantrum at the beginning of the meal, presumably she automatically thinks she wont like it but when she finally tastes she does and normally cleans the plate no fuss, its brilliant! But we now have the issue with her not wanting to eat anything much just pick and throw tantrums to get down. She snacks on fruit quite a lot during the day and still breastfeeds at least 6-10 times a day. So I guess she does this because she isn't hungry. I pushed dinner from 5pm to 6-6.30pm to help her sleep and she wasn't sleeping through and waking very hungry and this worked a treat for the sleep but no change in how much she wants to eat.

I really wouldn't worry, if your child is growing and happy they are obviously getting enough!