Parliament must vote to trigger Article 50

[jaywalker]

TheArtfulDogger Wrote:

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> Why was Corybn panting on about bargain bucket

> Britain in PMQ ... Where did that expression come

> from ?

He has at least picked up on what he thinks is the only line of opposition that won't sink his party finally, and for good. He has (he thinks) to support Brexit (democracy and all that). But he has read that the Europhobe Tories (although NOT a majority of her party - those people are shamefully silent apart from the excellent Ken Clarke) are themselves hopelessly split: between reactionary nationalists (with whom she sympathises) and free-market 'Singapore' Europhobes - who seem to be winning the internal debate about where her white paper will dream of taking her. The split is between capital and labour (well what a surprise with this crew). Capital will only come to the UK (what is left of it) if corporation tax is near zero, the stupid "bargain basement" metaphor that will connect with no one. Workers will be needed but cannot be allowed in (they would have to be foreign because those born here are ageing so fast). So foreign capital (privileges for the Indian-car-industry-in-the-uk etc) will just have to do.

The Europhile tories are digging their own grave: the lib-dems will annihilate them.

The Labour party will shrink but not as much as it would if they stated the principles they hold.

May will not get a negotiated settlement before the election: the election will remove any possibility of a settlement.

[Seabag]

Legacy is what many are after, it's all that stops them disappearing into nothingness.

Corbyn is in a once in a hundred year alignment, so he's milking it for all it's worth. There's a book and lefty lecture circuit to see him well into his dying days.

PMTM knows she'll not see it all through, so the 'PM who triggered Article 50' title will have her back on Question Time for the next 20 years, so enough time to write and witter on about what could have been.

[JohnL]

Seabag Wrote:

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> Legacy is what many are after, it's all that stops

> them disappearing into nothingness.

>

> Corbyn is in a once in a hundred year alignment,

> so he's milking it for all it's worth. There's a

> book and lefty lecture circuit to see him well

> into his dying days.

>

> PMTM knows she'll not see it all through, so the

> 'PM who triggered Article 50' title will have her

> back on Question Time for the next 20 years, so

> enough time to write and witter on about what

> could have been.

Logically I don't think he'll still be around to fight 2020

But he's a survivor so he might :)

[Otta]

Jeremy Wrote:

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>

> UK is small fry in comparison.

And this, for me, sums things up.

Many a brexiteer seems to have this belief that we are some how special, the whole "Great Britain" thing. We are no more special than any other country, and no one is going to do us any favours, just as we wouldn't if roles were reversed.

[Seabag]

I travel for work a fair bit lately

When asked where I'm from, I've dropped the 'United' & 'Great' from the answer. One woman just laughed when I said 'Great Britain'

I think it's the (miguided) size of the English language and it's global reach, that's given us a distorted view of ourselves.

[titch juicy]

Seabag Wrote:

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> I travel for work a fair bit lately

>

> When asked where I'm from, I've dropped the

> 'United' & 'Great' from the answer. One woman just

> laughed when I said 'Great Britain'

>

> I think it's the (miguided) size of the English

> language and it's global reach, that's given us a

> distorted view of ourselves.

I think that a good number of us don't have a distorted view of ourselves- we realise that in 2016 we're relatively insignificant.

[Otta]

titch juicy Wrote:

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> I think that a good number of us don't have a

> distorted view of ourselves- we realise that in

> 2016 we're relatively insignificant.

I think you'd be surprised how many people still think differently.

[Jules-and-Boo]

insignificant compared to what?

I completely disagree with you. In fact it's incredibly anti-British to say that. There are so many things that are completely brilliant, so many achievements and you're undermining everything by making such a sweeping and unsubstantiated statement.

[Seabag]

titch juicy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Seabag Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I travel for work a fair bit lately

> >

> > When asked where I'm from, I've dropped the

> > 'United' & 'Great' from the answer. One woman

> just

> > laughed when I said 'Great Britain'

> >

> > I think it's the (miguided) size of the English

> > language and it's global reach, that's given us

> a

> > distorted view of ourselves.

>

> I think that a good number of us don't have a

> distorted view of ourselves- we realise that in

> 2016 we're relatively insignificant.

Hence dropping of the faintly silly titles 'Great & United'

As you write them , they do seem slightly pompous, no?

[miga]

Dunno about insignificant - 5th by GDP, top 10 army, financial capital of the world in London, culturally influential, a handful of elite universities etc. etc. Not the most powerful empire any more, but that finished 100 years ago. I'll go out there and make a bold statement that it's a lot more tolerant and inclusive than most European countries.

One thing I've noticed is that, as far as prejudice goes, a lot of people aren't very fond of Great Britain abroad, ascribing to it all sorts of historical nefarious politicking (with a decent basis in the truth, to be fair).

[JohnL]

miga Wrote:

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> Dunno about insignificant - 5th by GDP, top 10

> army, financial capital of the world in London,

> culturally influential, a handful of elite

> universities etc. etc. Not the most powerful

> empire any more, but that finished 100 years ago.

> I'll go out there and make a bold statement that

> it's a lot more tolerant and inclusive than most

> European countries.

>

> One thing I've noticed is that, as far as

> prejudice goes, a lot of people aren't very fond

> of Great Britain abroad, ascribing to it all sorts

> of historical nefarious politicking (with a decent

> basis in the truth, to be fair).

We still do the politicking - EU countries will now

always associate us as the country that nagged and

nagged (then got) the best deal - then left anyway.

Our Universities have a huge influence - so many world

leaders are graduates - yet we're talking about not letting

so many foreigners in

[red devil]

Perhaps 'less significant' would be a better description...

[titch juicy]

red devil Wrote:

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> Perhaps 'less significant' would be a better

> description...

Yes, it would.

I think some folk consider Great Britain to be the Britain of Rule Britannia and the Empire; ruling the waves, manufacturing world leader etc.

My point was based on that view of empire that many still seem to have. But I guess if you asked them how we would make Britain great again, many wouldn't have an answer.

[Loz]

Seabag Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I travel for work a fair bit lately

>

> When asked where I'm from, I've dropped the

> 'United' & 'Great' from the answer. One woman just

> laughed when I said 'Great Britain'

>

> I think it's the (miguided) size of the English

> language and it's global reach, that's given us a

> distorted view of ourselves.

'Great' I can see, but you dropped 'United'?? "Where are you from?" "Kingdom".

Besides, United Kingdom is no less silly (or misguided) as the United Stated of America.

[Earl Aelfheah]

It's no coincidence that the most prominent Brexiters (Gove, Boris, Farage), all went to the types of public schools with archaic traditions rooted in a sense of a bygone Britain. Their retoric is often peppered with misguided nods at British exceptionalism.

[nxjen]

But so too did Cameron and Osborne (how quickly they've been forgotten)

[Seabag]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Seabag Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I travel for work a fair bit lately

> >

> > When asked where I'm from, I've dropped the

> > 'United' & 'Great' from the answer. One woman

> just

> > laughed when I said 'Great Britain'

> >

> > I think it's the (miguided) size of the English

> > language and it's global reach, that's given us

> a

> > distorted view of ourselves.

>

> 'Great' I can see, but you dropped 'United'??

> "Where are you from?" "Kingdom".

>

> Besides, United Kingdom is no less silly (or

> misguided) as the United Stated of America.

I usually stick to London, it's seen as a country within a country I think

I'm done with the cark of either United or Great. I like where I live, but I'm cautious how we appear to our trading partners in Europe, the London exemption usually sees us through tho.

United States.... ha ha really, but no!

[pato]

yeah I think Seabg is right ..I think You have been given a distorted view ...on pretty much anything.But I think it has to do with Your history..

in football for instance all country is asking itself why they do not deliver a result...

my question is: have they ever delivered a result that you so much sure You ll win something..? Where are all this expectations coming from???Now take this meaningless example and put it into brexit..

I Think it s time to think real..

Would the bank system work in here without european and no european workers and money?

will the houses business work without foreigners and foreign money?

Would You have any food restaurant etc? Are we forgetting 15 yrs ago what was on the supermarket shelves??

Would you have water without the romans..?

Time will tell..

Also for those complaining and even more marching against Trump: is there any difference in policy, a part from the wall (so far..maybe in northern ireland soon?) in between Trump and May..?

For all the women marching last saturday against Trump:

What s the point to march against Trump if Mrs May has pretty much the same policies? ..even more what s the point of english women marching against Trump and send Your best woman the day after to lick his....?

I really do not understand this brexit thing.

Has anyone told you Mr Cameron had just put controls on the border just before the referendum? You always been in Europe and always done pretty much what you wanted..

Mrs May thought few months ago going out of Europe was the most stupid idea ever...what has changed in few months??

I have been in this country nearly 20 yrs and i love it. A part from going to Iraq that is the most stupid idea I have seen since here.

You might, And i hope so, even make it..but does it really make sense to make it with Trump and South Arabia..??

I understand business is business but i find it revolting if my country was licking some trump or south Arabian asses..

Shame on You

World is now a worst place..Surely our children will pay the price

Money is not good or bad, it s the way you do the money. An artist can be loaded ...a drug dealer can be loaded.

You have decided to make money and get protection selling weapons in Arabia and licking Trump ass..

There was really the need to do that????

I personally find it a disgrace for the country

[BrandNewGuy]

It should be pointed out that 'Great Britain' is derived from the post-Norman 'Grande Bretagne', to distinguish the large island of Britain from 'Bretagne', which referred to modern-day Brittany. So it's not a claim about how marvellous we are.

[jaywalker]

BrandNewGuy Wrote:

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> It should be pointed out that 'Great Britain' is

> derived from the post-Norman 'Grande Bretagne', to

> distinguish the large island of Britain from

> 'Bretagne', which referred to modern-day Brittany.

> So it's not a claim about how marvellous we are.

phew, it has an original meaning so there is no need to worry about what it is taken to mean when used now. So the Last Night at the Proms is in fact a celebration of our size compared to Brittany.

I suddenly wonder if 'village' is a very upmarket way of reversing this relative, say, to 'east'.

[red devil]

BrandNewGuy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It should be pointed out that 'Great Britain' is

> derived from the post-Norman 'Grande Bretagne', to

> distinguish the large island of Britain from

> 'Bretagne', which referred to modern-day Brittany.

Bloody estate agents...

[BrandNewGuy]

jaywalker Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> BrandNewGuy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > It should be pointed out that 'Great Britain'

> is

> > derived from the post-Norman 'Grande Bretagne',

> to

> > distinguish the large island of Britain from

> > 'Bretagne', which referred to modern-day

> Brittany.

> > So it's not a claim about how marvellous we

> are.

>

> phew, it has an original meaning so there is no

> need to worry about what it is taken to mean when

> used now. So the Last Night at the Proms is in

> fact a celebration of our size compared to

> Brittany.

Well, I've had non-Brits sneering at our arrogance for calling ourselves 'Great'. I for one think it's worth pointing out their ignorance :-)

[Seabag]

BrandNewGuy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It should be pointed out that 'Great Britain' is

> derived from the post-Norman 'Grande Bretagne', to

> distinguish the large island of Britain from

> 'Bretagne', which referred to modern-day Brittany.

> So it's not a claim about how marvellous we are.

Oh dear, so it's a European reference

More reason to drop it, no?

[rendelharris]

Actually I believe the Egyptians were the first to use the term Great Britain ? the UK mainland was Great Britain and Ireland was Little Britain. Why can I remember that from classics lessons 35 years ago and can't remember my own mobile phone number?

[BrandNewGuy]

Well, that was a description used by Ptolemy, but there's no evidence that they were the names used for either Ireland or GB at the time. FWIW Wikipedia goes with the Brittany/Little Britain connection.