squatters in our flat

[Ridgley]

Yes I am afraid you are right H not, sure if I can swallow it if this happend to me:X

[matthew123]

I don't think it's too far fetched to imagine, that if you did what they have done, in their home town you might be dragged kicking and screaming by a mob to a waste disposal site, clubbed to death then thrown in the incinerator.

It's a huge shame that occasionally both from home and abroad we have scum that take advantage of our system.

[Saila]

Update:

We?ve had a quote of 'at least' ?3000 for legal fees and bailiff fees and haven?t really got much further than two weeks ago.

As someone who?s going through this now with our own property (which was only left vacant for 3 weeks maximum cos my parents viewed an empty property just prior to buying it) it?s frustrating to have the police inside the flat saying to the squatters ?i?ve seen the state of this flat and i will act as a witness to prove you?ve trashed it, if you trash it?

This just means the police have no power of discretion. They know it?s our flat and we have a T1 form showing we?ve paid for the flat etc etc

Lots of bureaucracy means that we?ll have to fork out ?3k and it will take months to get the flat back

the worst bit about all of this is my dad's not sleeping and is so stressed out he's not making sense with his sentences :( he's all over the place

[ianr]

Saila, please do ask your legal adviser about the legality of your parents, or persons acting for them, exercising rights under sections 6 and 12A of the Criminal Law Act 1977 http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegType=All+Legislation&title=criminal+law+act+&Year=1977&searchEnacted=0&extentMatchOnly=0&confersPower=0&blanketAmendment=0&sortAlpha=0&TYPE=QS&PageNumber=1&NavFrom=0&parentActiveTextDocId=793250&ActiveTextDocId=793260&filesize=61764. From what you have said, they seem to me to come into the category of Protected Intended Occupier (PIO) and would be entitled, with the required proof of title, to break into the flat to gain immediate possession. They could even ask the police to be present, as protectors of the peace.

There's a useful take on this kind of case, from I think a police officer, in the 21-10-2010 11:27 post at http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/threads/336065-Squatting-How-is-this-possible?p=11182121.

[DJKillaQueen]

Yes surely an Interim Possession order can be obtained in this case? Meaning they can be evicted within two weeks if they don't leave of their own free will.

[Saila]

Yes - that's the route we're going down

we had a quote of ?1k from bailiffs (if they refuse to leave after the inital IPO) and a quote of ?2.5k for the solicitors fees (we are ringing around for better quotes as this seems ridiculous to us)

still all work in progress and as we're not experts in this field it just takes longer to get through things

i'm sure if we get squatters again we'd be much quicker but this is the first time for us so it's stressful and slow

after the IPO - if they haven't left, i think they then get a final notice? i'm not up to speed with the next stage as our whole family's down with a that winter vomiting bug, so i'm a bit behind...

[ianr]

A PIO would not need an order, just a signed statement as specified in s.12A; plus perhaps, to be on the safe side and ensure the squatters and police should reasonably be satisfied that your claim is true (s.6.1.(A)), other documentation proving title. Cf the reference to a s.12A statement even in the Advisory Service for Squatters boiler-plate "Legal Warning". http://www.squatter.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=31 And PIOs are, as I read it, specifically excluded from the s.6 offence of using violence to gain entry.

If seeking a possession order, I think I'd do the form-filling, service and representation myself rather than pay ?2.5k.

[Saila]

Thanks very much for your help ianr. Forwarding all this onto my family now.

ianr Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> A PIO would not need an order, just a signed

> statement as specified in s.12A; plus perhaps, to

> be on the safe side and ensure the squatters and

> police should reasonably be satisfied that your

> claim is true (s.6.1.(A)), other documentation

> proving title. Cf the reference to a s.12A

> statement even in the Advisory Service for

> Squatters boiler-plate "Legal Warning".

> http://www.squatter.org.uk/index.php?option=com_co

> ntent&task=view&id=13&Itemid=31 And PIOs are, as

> I read it, specifically excluded from the s.6

> offence of using violence to gain entry.

>

> If seeking a possession order, I think I'd do the

> form-filling, service and representation myself

> rather than pay ?2.5k.

[Saila]

Update: on ianr's advice

My brother and mother (dad's ill) went to lambeth county court and filled out all the forms for an IPO. they should be getting the IPO sometime soon (next 2 weeks?). They'll then get someone to go round and post this on the windows

will tell you what happens afterwards

i'm going to give the forum updates so that if this happens again to anyone they don't have to learn the ins and outs but can hopefully just read this and see the reality in terms steps needed and times etc

[DJKillaQueen]

Once the notice goes up on the windows/door the squatters have 48 hours to leave after which you can use bailiffs and Police to force eviction. So hopefully you'll have your home back within a few weeks, not months.

[lofty23]

So you want to spend a shed load of cash so that you can board up the empty property? How about speaking to the squatters and telling the they can stay there as long as they keep the place in good condition until you're going to use it. It'll stop it getting broken into again and perhaps used as a crack den.

[DJKillaQueen]

Err if you read the thread you'll see that the OP's parents just bought the place and were about to renovate it before doing whatever they intend to do. In fact it was the builder turning up to do the work that uncovered the squatters.

These people have no intention of leaving amicably or paying rent. The OP has no other option but to spend this money in order to act quickly on the legal side. If the OP does not get that legal process started within a set time of discovering squatters then it becomes far more difficult a process to evict them. The OP has no other choice if they want the property back within weeks rather than months or worse still years.

[Marie81]

Have you spoken to the squatters and asked how much cash it would take to move them on? Probably a lot less than your legal fee's would cost you!

[lofty23]

Saila Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> we'll have to get the whole place boarded up so

> that we can then fix grills and cages etc to stop

> them getting access again

>

That's what she said, ok I missed the bit about a builder.

[DJKillaQueen]

At the end of the day these epople shouldn't be in this property. If you start bribing people like this to leave then effectively they are getting away with blackmail.

[Saila]

lofty23 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Saila Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> >

> > we'll have to get the whole place boarded up so

> > that we can then fix grills and cages etc to

> stop

> > them getting access again

> >

>

>

> That's what she said, ok I missed the bit about a

> builder.

hello lofty

The squatters must have moved in only a few weeks ago as they weren't there when my parents last viewed the flat before buying

Secondly, we were advised by the bailiff company (amongst others) to board up the flat and put grills up *as soon as possible* after we finally get access i.e. after the final court order has been granted and they have been removed.

This is to prevent them coming back that night and the whole thing starting all over again

not sure what we've done / are doing wrong in your eyes?

[Marie81]

DJKillaQueen: I know it's unfair to have to bribe them but the legal route didn't work for my boyfriend when he had squatters move into his new property. It was going to take to long and they were using it as a drug den thus wrecking the place and as soon as he suggested money they let him in to pay this little lady upstairs who seemed to be running the whole thing and they moved out and never came back. I wish Saila all the luck in getting rid of them, it's such an awful stressful situation to be in.

[lofty23]

I don't think you're doing anything wrong unless you just want to board up the flat but if you have plans for it that's great, I hate to see a wasted building. Many squatters are reasonable so it is worth trying to talk to them.

[DJKillaQueen]

Squatters may be reasonable sometimes, but they have no right to steal someone's property. And there is a distinction between a property that has been empty for years and one that has become recently empty (and the law makes provision for that difference). The action Saila's family are taking will enable them to be evicted within weeks not months so it should all be resolved shortly.

[Saila]

Great news!

The squatters have gone. The flat is empty & soon to be ours again.

We are still going ahead with the court procedure though, just in case they come back but there's been no sign of them for a few days now

Trial is on Wednesday

Someone said to me that they probably thought it was an empty council property and didn't realise that it was privately owned etc. Fingers crossed this is the case....

[ianr]

Great news.

An idle question, to which I don't know the answer: can one actually obtain a possession order against persons who are not in possession, or who also happen now to be no longer identifiable or describable?

[Marie81]

Great news :)

[DJKillaQueen]

Brilliant news Saila....make sure you get someone in there asap though.....so as not to have to go through this again.

Best of luck.

[Saila]

yes - the builder has moved in - the whole main bit of the flat is a pile of rubble now (knocked down a wall already) and the water mains are about to go off (redoing bathroom) so i can't think they'd wanna move back in now.

We've secured the door with a london-iron (?) and the builder's putting temporary metal beams ax the window, in case they decide to smash it to gain access.

good question ianr, i guess we'll find out on wednesday! i'll tell you the outcome

one thing that i found slightly odd/scary - was that the interim possession order has your (my parents) name and address on it... not sure i want them to know where they are currently living.. which is just around the corner

oh well

[DJKillaQueen]

Was it the IPO that pursuaded them to leave?