Child-free pubs, bars, cafes, restaurants?

[Domitianus]

Anyone know of anywhere is ED area where there is a reasonable prospect of eating, dining, relaxing in an environment that doesn't resemble a kindergarten?

[RosieH]

well le chandelier encourages parents with kids into the middle section, so up front and upstairs you should be ok (they're also currently working on a more extensive evening menu if you're looking for the full-on dining experience)

Franklins is usually pretty good - it's not 100% child-free, but the menu isn't that kid-friendly so that might be what keeps them out...

[Ant]

I don't think I've ever seen kids in the Palmerston but it could be I just wasn't looking properly.

[Narnia]

I only ever go out to the Thai Corner Cafe where sometimes there are well behaved kids. What's wrong with kids? You were one once!

[Ladygooner]

Gosh Domitianus you are brave asking that question on here - braver than me - been wanting to ask it for ages but frightened I might be hunted down and run over by hundreds of bugabooson Lordship Lane! Well done you!

[Narnia]

Hang on Ladygooner.............my kid is 16 and would probably rather die than be seen out with his parents. Kids are generally more intertesting than their parents who are completely obsessed by them and don't realise the kids are actually living their own lives (albeit nosily) unaware of what adults think of them. I wish I could remember how to do that!

[Narnia]

I think I meant noisily............but that could be spelt incorrectly and nosy is pretty accurate too. Do you remember ever being asked the question Why? to everything you took for granted but for a new little being it was like being told about flying saucers and just wanting to know what the SP was on flying saucers? Great!

[Scruffy Mummy]

Um, I think there's a good over 60's lunch club down at the pensioners centre in Camberwell.

[macroban]

> I think there's a good over 60's lunch club down at the pensioners centre in Camberwell.

I'd be grateful for details.

Thank you.

[Dulwich_ Park_ Fairy]

You must be a bit of a daytime drinker Domitianus, not that thats a problem. During the day I think you should try the CPT or Castle, and if you can hold out until 19:00 most pubs (except the Herne) become kid free. You don't get many kids in the Peckham Weatherspoon either.

[Narnia]

Scruffy Mummy Wrote:

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> Um, I think there's a good over 60's lunch club

> down at the pensioners centre in Camberwell.

In my experience the over 60's and kids are about equally as interesting to talk to. One section is just starting out on the adventure of life and like a sponge takes everything in, the other has been there and done that and they often wonder what it was all about. Can't say I know all the answers but beats questions about house prices in ED or where to go to avoid kids for that matter!

[hoolley]

I know what you mean! Sometimes its like being in a creche especially in the afternoon and the Mums sit there drinking lemonade! Take them to the park for goodness sake. Ive had 3 children myself but it was 'my space' to go to the pub, get a baby sitter and have some me time where I could be a person and talk to adults. I know in Europe they are more child friendly in bars etc., but at the same time I really don't want to see kids in pubs.

[downsouth]

The Rye Hotel was a real kindergaretn today but I didn't mind. The only place I know guaranteed to be child free is Beauberry House in Belair Park - but for that privelege you will have to pay.

[AllforNun]

Apparently the guy from chitty chitty bang bang frequented these kinds of places. Let me look for his email then you could meet up and chat.

[Jessie]

go to pubs after 7pm, and they should be child free

[Scruffy Mummy]

yes - most people with young children don't have the freedom that child-free people have to go out any ole' night they please so I think it's abit mean spirted to moan about parents going to cafe's/child-friendly pubs etc during the daytimes!!! I do take my kid to the park/playground - at least 3 hours of our days together are spent outdoors and it's nice after a trip out to be able to go to a child-friendly cafe/pub, met a friend and have a coffee or lemonade for the MAX 30 minutes that we have before the kids go bonkers and want to escape. At the end of the day, alot of people move to East Dulwich because it's a family/child friendly zone - the businesses here recognise this and tend to be family friendly. Deal with it or start a child-free restaurant/cafe/bar etc.

[downsouth]

Scruffy Mummy - I think it was an innocent and legitimate question. I certainly don't take offence. Each to their own in the same way as some might ask where is there a child friendly establishment. Not everyone goes doe eyed seeing little Justin or Harriet. Walking round today we didn't see a single place except for Franklins not occupied by kiddies. That's how East Dulwich has developed in the last 5-10 years.

[sillywoman]

You might like to try Springers wine bar in East Dulwich Grove (opposite what's left of the E.D.hospital), Friendly, good food, and relatively child free.

[RosieH]

can I ask a question here, because I've often wished for a child-free zone, not because I don't like kids, I really do, but because some of them seem to be allowed to run riot, which is possibly what grates for us hung-over non-parents.

I went to restaurants from a really young age and was always really well behaved because my parents made me (that may have since changed) so I was wondering is this riotous behaviour just kids' normal rambunctiousness, or are there a few mums and dads who just can't be bothered to make sure their kids behave?

and do other parents among you sometimes look and tut and think, mine would never act like that, or do you sympathise because it's probably knackering?

[Ant]

Bit of a can of worms, that, RosieH. Kids have good days and bad days just like anyone else, so be wary of generalisations.

I don't think anyone would disagree that parents ought to exercise some control over their kids while they're out. There may be some differences in where to draw the line, but if we want kids to go to restaurants from a young age, as you did, and to learn how to behave in social situations then I think we all ought to tolerate a certain amount of that. Having said that I don't think I've ever seen kids being allowed to run riot, so I can't say whether what you saw was really bad or whether it's just your perception of it.

Now, tantrums, that's something else altogether. If that ever happened I (and I imagine most parents) would take the kid outside to calm down a bit. But there's precious little else you can do, and if for any reason you can't take the kid outside... well... it's not going to be pretty.

Edit: And as for your last question, probably a bit of both depending on how bad the other kid was behaving.

[LuvPeckham]

The Rye offers the best of both worlds

Daytime up to 7pm it is child friendly and allows children in with their parents, nanny or whom ever is looking after them at the time

After 7pm it doesn't allow children in, making it a sanctuary for any parents who wish to leave the kids with their child minder and have an adult evening out (Equally it is wonderful for anyone who doesn?t have kids as well :)))

Personally I think this works well as it caters for both groups (tu)

[Brendan]

I for one am suspicious of children. I am convinced they are hell bent on running the world one day.

[Domitianus]

Thanks for the useful replies.

I must say I am quite amazed at the way a straightforward initial question from me could provoke such defensive reactions from some and that it could actually be regarded as "brave" to ask it. I guess that just shows how intimidated those without children in ED seem to feel about having the 'audacity' to want some space just for adults or at least with well-behaved and adequately supervised children. If someone posted here asking whether there are child friendly local cafes and hostelries I doubt a hair would have been turned and all manner of useful responses would have been posted but when someone wishes to track down somewhere they can relax in a bit of peace without hordes of uncontrolled kids being around their feet - out come the crucifix, hammer and nails. Out with the allegations that someone s like the hildcatcher out of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. What rot! What an unbalanced community we live in!

I would add one comment about most pubs being child-free in the evening. Within the last couple of days I was in Green & Blue and it was about 7-45pm. Place was getting quite full and there was a small group of what appeared to be ED sitting drinking wine with a baby who could scarcely have been more than a few months old. The child was crying constantly (not surprising - it was a noisy place and the child was probably exhausted) but its 'carers' seemed unperturbed. On my way out I discretely asked the staff if there was legislation about the time after which children were not permitted to be in licensed premises. They told me 7-30pm. I did not draw their attention to the crying baby (as it was unessecary, everyone was aware of it) but the G&B staff just looked rather sheepish and embarrassed. I got the impression they were simply embarrassed to intervene and ask the party to take the child home (despite it being unlawful and clearly against the child's interests to be there) because they were afraid to be seen as unfriendly to families.

Anyway, I think Rosie got the balance just about right - it is not kids, but completely uncontrolled or unsupervised kids that are a nuisance to others. An example of how to achieve a good balance was evident to me this morning when I popped in for a bite to the Bread of Life cafe in the church at the top of Barry Road. Now I am not religious but I think the food tere is fairly good and the atmosphere peacful. It is completely child-friendly, more so than any other local place I know. I counted this morning seven high-chairs available for parents with children. There is a host of children's plastic drinking mugs available. There are low chairs and toys and colouring in stuff. They even run a breast-feeding cafe, children's drama, babuy-yoga etc in the same place. However, they have copies of a laminated card on display with the following words:

"To all parents/carers. Please be reminded that you are responsible for your children at all times. All are welcome to enjoy the facilities, but there are ground rules. Please remember that this is a Church not a playground. You must supervise your children whilst in this space. You must know where they are at all times. Please respect other diners who wish to enjoy their meal experience in peace and quiet. Thanks for your consideration".

Allelujah! Reading that was almost enough to make me discover a religious faith! Everyone there seems to respect these simple guidelines and it is a comfortable place to be. I am more than happy for kids to be there and am absolutely fine with the occasional child who will cry, make a bit of racket etc. Fundamental those 'ground rules' are a request for a bit of mutual respect for all parties and an acknowledgment that different people have different needs that can be respected. My objection is to the complete lack of respect for others that seems to typify the behaviours of those (apparently numerous) ED parents/carers who take their kids out and then allow them to run riot and indluge in utterly spoilt behaviour which impinges upon the enjoyment of other customers in the same places. Is it unreasonable to say that as a non-parent who likes the occasional bit of comparative tranquility I should not be allowed to ask for MY needs to be respected? I think not but obviously some parents are so selfish that they don't give a d**n about anyone other than themselves and their precious offspring.

My objectio

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[*Bob*]

... aaaaand... EXHALE

[Domitianus]

Not easy when child at table next to you is banging metal sppon on table repeatedly and its mother is doing absolutely nothing about it!!!!