Iceland eyesore

[first mate]

LM, I don't think it's a conspiracey theory, it is fairly clear that council and local Councillors want CPZ. I think what the estate agent meant was that there is an expectation that parking pressure will increase on streets close to M&S which will result in residents asking for CPZ some time soon.

Don't forget that development also includes over ten flats, a proportion of which, if not all, will own cars. Double yellow lines are to be extended and ee may get some cycle hangars. Melbourne us also set to lose some parking spaces. As you know, if a number of roads get CPZ the rest of the area will follow, as parking is displaced.

[ed_pete]

first mate Wrote:

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> LM, I don't think it's a conspiracey theory, it is

> fairly clear that council and local Councillors

> want CPZ.

Presumably you're think James Barber here, however there are two other Councillors in ED Ward - where is your evidence that Charlie Smith and Rosie Shimell support a CPZ ?

[DovertheRoad]

M&S generally....it's not really top notch anymore is it? Waitrose kind of hold that crown as far as supermarkets go. And the choice in those small but expensive Simply stores is limited. The M&S ready meals are a bit rank and expensive for what they are as well. It's probably what first drove me to learn cook my own stuff...to many student days on them. So...it's all a bit boring really and puts the "Dull" in Dulwich.

Why would you go there when you have the better priced Co-Op or some great indies like SMBS, the Turkish grocer, Moxons and the Beardy Butcher.

[LondonMix]

I don't personally know anyone living in a flat without kids that owns a car in London. The people I know with a car have kids (and not all of them, just some).

I know that's anecdotal but its why I find some of the parking pressure arguments a bit crazy. Young people living in 2 bed flats in zone 2 London aren't car owners. With uber and zip car, owning a vehicle makes virtually no financial sense until you need to haul kids around and even then its more for convenience factor / car seat issue rather than because it makes more financial sense.

Maybe Southwark and certain residents want a CPZ but M&S isn't to blame for Southwark's political aims. There is an M&S in Brixton and I just don't see why one here is going to generate all this crazy extra car traffic.

I am concerned that the developer (not M&S) appears to have skirted affordable housing requirements and that delivery access may be a challenge. The rest though just seems over blown. Its one chain shop replacing another chain shop.

[LondonMix]

I've been burned by the CO-OP too often. They sell rotten fruit and veg which is just so rank.

Anyhow, the local indies have no more to really fear from M&S than they have to fear from the CO-OP or Iceland. Its a different offering.

[Jeremy]

M&S will do well... crucially, they'll be open when the independents are shut. The food - while not amazing - is on a different level to co-op, which I only use as a last resort.

Whether or not you personally like convenience food is kind of a moot point. There are a lot of people out there who don't have time to cook every night, or simply have no interest in cooking. Each to their own.

[????]

I agree with DoverTheRoad M&S was worshipped for food about 15 years ago! Not sure it's that much of a pull nowadays. Anyway, this thread is miles of amusement with it's mixture of pooterishness and faux class hatred.

[LondonMix]

I think M&S will do well. If you like convenience food (which most people do at least sometimes), its a good option. You can get something without having to think about it at the station and on the weekends.

Now, if a full sized Waitrose opened up, I think that would generate tons of traffic. I know a supermarket was planned for the development on Barry Road but I think the original Morrison's or whatever pulled out.

[first mate]

My concern has always been with the scale of this development and M&S is simply shorthand for the site. Nonetheless, I do not think the shop would be oblivious to local objections to what the developer has managed to force through and in that sense they might be viewed as having colluded.

On the subject of flats and car ownership- I do so hope you are right. Indeed let us hope that the flats are affordable for young buyers and actually occupied.

LondonMix Wrote:

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> I don't personally know anyone living in a flat

> without kids that owns a car in London. The

> people I know with a car have kids (and not all of

> them, just some).

>

> I know that's anecdotal but its why I find some of

> the parking pressure arguments a bit crazy. Young

> people living in 2 bed flats in zone 2 London

> aren't car owners. With uber and zip car, owning

> a vehicle makes virtually no financial sense until

> you need to haul kids around and even then its

> more for convenience factor / car seat issue

> rather than because it makes more financial

> sense.

>

> Maybe Southwark and certain residents want a CPZ

> but M&S isn't to blame for Southwark's political

> aims. There is an M&S in Brixton and I just don't

> see why one here is going to generate all this

> crazy extra car traffic.

>

> I am concerned that the developer (not M&S)

> appears to have skirted affordable housing

> requirements and that delivery access may be a

> challenge. The rest though just seems over blown.

> Its one chain shop replacing another chain shop.

[LondonMix]

Whether they are generally affordable or not, I think they'll be occupied by people without children and cars. Even if the flats are bought by investors and rented out, I still think that's who would be prepared to live above a shop with the access that these 2 bed flats have etc. These aren't really geared towards young families.

Regarding M&S's collusion, they only thing anyone can hold them responsible for is their requirement regarding extending the ground floor of the premises. They are just a tenant-- everything else the freeholder has done is for the sole benefit of the freeholder and has nothing to do with M&S. I'd hate to be seen as on collusion with everything my landlord does just because I rent premises off of them.

[first mate]

LM, re flats and occupancy, let's wait and see. Hope you are right.

On the M&S point, I think you are being very generous. Yes, they wanted the ground floor extended, knowing the size of the site and knowing that the developer would build above, extending by another floor. M&S, knowing the size of the site, the size of the delivery entrance and service area, now much reduced at their stipulation, have also made it a condition that deliveries are stepped up thereby creating much more traffic and congestion on the street.

M&S, knowing the history of damage to residential properties made by Iceland delivery vehicles, have forged ahead and, if anything, made further issues more likely by reducing the service/delivery area and stepping up deliveries. AS I said, yesterday there were two men clearly discussing large delivery vehicle manoeuvres into the site, trying to figure out how this could be done. They did not look happy.

[LondonMix]

I agree 100% that anyone who has an issue with the ground floor extension can blame M&S as the only reason the freeholder is extending the ground floor is to satisfy there needs.

I don't think M&S have anything to do with the conversion of the office space to residential space or adding the additional floor. The shop as a tenant has zero economic interest in any of that so that should all fall squarely on the freeholder.

I could be wrong about the flats. They may appeal to some young families. Its just at the price they are asking, you could get a two bed garden flat on a quiet residential street in central ED. Personally, that would seem a better fit but who knows.

[LondonMix]

I should say I am generally biased in favor of new residential development and I don't think we should be providing loads of parking. Southwark's policy is actually that residential schemes near public transport should have zero parking. There stance on this is stronger than the broader London policy on maximum parking allowed for new projects.

[first mate]

Oh goodness yes, we need homes for young people so all for that. Happy also for parking not to be increased but not for it to ripped away almost overnight by bonkers suggestions like a wholesale increase in double yellow lines everywhere when in reality two new schools and a sizeable self proclaimed 'destination shop' are opening and underway.

THen the further bonkers suggestions to close off streets thereby funnelling yet more traffic onto LL in the hope that more people will cycle or use public transport. Let's face it, current reports about rail and bus services do not inspire confidence.

Anyhow rant over.

[LondonMix]

Yes, agreed, closing roads and getting rid of existing parking is idiotic. I signed those petitions as well!

[Lolamaxx]

Just wanted to say... Don't be so convinced that Iceland offered great value for money, for people with big or small budgets... Condiments and common branded items there were often more expensive than Sainsbury's or Tesco (often just as expensive as Coop though perhaps not M&S, though they have their own-brand stuff that can sometimes be reasonably-priced), and they had a very limited selection of fruit and veg, at average prices. Not saying M&S food isn't usually luxury/extortionate, but let's not get too excited about Iceland - it wasn't and isn't great, apart from a few own-brand frozen bits for bulk-buying/convenience. I'd have been rooting for an Aldi or Lidl, personally, but strangely no one asked me!

[Sue]

Their free range eggs, cheddar and frozen veg were good value. I miss Iceland :(

[Louisa]

Hear hear, Sue. You didn't go into Iceland to buy everything, but some things were very good value for money. Essentials and frozen produce were especially good value.

IMO the co-op needs to close. Went in for some bits earlier and was shocked at the cost of milk. Daylight robbery. Won't be returning for essentials there again. A lidl or asda convenience would be far better.

Louisa.

[siousxiesue]

The Co-op is a disgrace, no exaggeration. Empty lines, broken cold stores, used to complain frequently on the Facebook page but they're really not concerned. I'm sure the individual staff are nice people, but the management is appalling.

[Louisa]

siousxiesue Wrote:

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> The Co-op is a disgrace, no exaggeration. Empty

> lines, broken cold stores, used to complain

> frequently on the Facebook page but they're really

> not concerned. I'm sure the individual staff are

> nice people, but the management is appalling.

It seems the same management team who ran the previous Somerfield, and Gateway before that are still in charge at this location despite the change in retailer. And I agree, the place is shockingly bad. Co-op won't be giving up this prime site anytime soon though, so we will just have to put up with it.

Louisa.

[JoeLeg]

They've probably been able to stay for ages under TUPE law. Apologies for wiki but it's a fairly coherent overview of the legal issue. It's been around in one form or another since the early 80's.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_of_Undertakings_(Protection_of_Employment)_Regulations_2006

While it's a good piece of legislation, it does mean that it's possible for bad staff to stay in place for many years even if the employers change, unless those employers are willing to challenge them. It appears Co Op don't feel the need, unfortunately.

[LondonMix]

All the co ops I've been too have been horrid - rotten food etc. I think the issues go beyond any single branches employees / management

[Nigello]

CoOp yesterday arvo, around 1600 had no self-service checkouts because a leak had shorted some electrics. I had to ask a person shelf stacking to find more check out staff to help reduce the very long queue.

I miss Iceland for its basics, which were good value and good quality.

[Louisa]

The Iceland store never had these problems, always well stocked shelves with friendly and competent staff. They were like a family in there.

Louisa.

[aerie]

LondonMix Wrote:

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> All the co ops I've been too have been horrid -

> rotten food etc. I think the issues go beyond any

> single branches employees / management

I believe the co-op is franchised