"While you were out" -- Royal Mail false delivery attempts

[tomdhu]

Sue Wrote:

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> DJKillaQueen Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > To be fair though, postmen are paid to do a job

> > and some of them aren't doing it. It's hard to

> > have any sympathy for that.

>

> xxxxxxxxxx

> Yes, but that didn't appear to be the point that

> tomdhu was making, and he hasn't come back in

> response to my post.

The main point I was making was in my original post QUOTE If they can't be @rsed to provide the service that they are paid to provide, why does Royal Mail continue to exist at all? UNQUOTE - which is not too far from DJKQ's take on it.

Whatever, Royal Mail has for a long time been a problem that the politicians have stuggled with - best described as primarily a huge pension fund with a cr@ppy postal delivery service attached. Get rid of it. If Ronald Regan can sack 7000 bolshie skilled air traffic controllers (and still keep air transport running) then replacing several thousand low skilled postmen shouldnt be all that difficult.

I had another incident about a year ago when I was actually out of the house when a delivery had been attempted. I came home to find the red card which said "The pkt is in your brown bin". The brown bin had been put out to the front of the house that morning but, by a stroke of good fortune, the bin men had failed to empty it as scheduled. Is this a case of two wrongs making a right?? :)

Oh, and finally Sue, if did find myself out of a job (again) I would take anything going - including delivering mail. I've been made redundant several times but I never been out of work for very long. I've always found that having a job, any job, makes it easier to get considered when applying for another (eg better paid ) job.

[sequinstars]

Hi All,

I've encountered this problem a couple of times with wage slips and packages. I called the Royal Mail to complain and they managed to discover who the post man was and have him repremanded. Apparently the lazy sod is breaking some sort of postmans law (it's a illegal not to deliver post correctly or something).

It's well worth ringing the complaints line and quote the number on the slip that they leave.

Since I complained, packages and general post has been delivered correctly (though it's probably been spat on and put down the old posty's pants in protest before it's made it into my letter box).

[Sue]

tomdhu Wrote:

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>

> The main point I was making was in my original

> post QUOTE If they can't be @rsed to provide the

> service that they are paid to provide.....

>

> Oh, and finally Sue, if did find myself out of a

> job (again) I would take anything going -

> including delivering mail. I've been made

> redundant several times but I never been out of

> work for very long. I've always found that having

> a job, any job, makes it easier to get considered

> when applying for another (eg better paid ) job.

xxxxxxxxx

The post I was referring to was the one in which you appeared to be saying that postal workers did not deserve a pay increase or an improvement in their terms and conditions. I suggested you research what they got.

Postmen/women's pay and conditions

If you would like to work a forty hour week (that's forty working hours) for that level of basic pay, good on you. All the posties I have known have had to do overtime even on top of the forty hours, to make a decent living wage.

And as for taking the job as a stop-gap until you find something better - maybe that's the cause of the very problems you are complaining about. Royal Mail spend time and money on training and then people leave.

In any work environment, some people will be hard grafters who give their all, and some will be lazy tossers. It's not fair to talk about Royal Mail as if all their employees fall into the latter category.

[DJKillaQueen]

They are not great wages (and I have argued for a long time that the minimum wage needs to be raised to ?8) but they are at that pay level because it is an unskilled job. And like all inskilled jobs employees earn lower salaries and often need overtime (if they can get it) to make ends meet. Let's not start pretending that being a Postman is somehow on a Par with beign a Nurse or Fireman etc. It's not.

[Sue]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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>> Let's not start pretending that being a Postman is

> somehow on a Par with beign a Nurse or Fireman

> etc. It's not.

xxxxxxxxx

No of course it's not.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't be paid a decent living wage. It may be an unskilled job, but it's an essential job.

[DJKillaQueen]

I agree on the decent living wage......because I think everyone that works deserves to have a decent living wage.

On the essential job front.....that doesn't mean that Royal mail can't be subject to the same performance demands that any business needs to achieve to stay in business. We all remember the poor service of the gas board before privatisation. I think Royal Mail is in a similar place in that it doesn't make enough money to pay for itself, and the expensive pension aspect is part of the problem. But it can't raise prices because private delivery companies would be cheaper. So the downward push has always been on jobs and efficiency - which eventually reaches a breaking point and so on.

Privatisation would bring profitability but not without some loss of job security and pension rights etc.

It's one of the real dilema's of our economy and it's changing demographic nature. When all of these things were put in place, jobs with fixed pensions and so on, we had a demograhpic model and Labour force that could pay for it. Fifty years on...we don't. So it has to change. The good times are over.....incuding for the baby boomers who were promised everything and have done very well.....the rest of us just aren't prepared to pay for it whilst we get nothing in return.

[binary_star]

If anyone would like to complain using RM's online form (it took me ages to find the URL and helpfully, it's NOT the one provided by their telephone customer services) here is the link:

http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/jump3?catId=400144&mediaId=15400382

[Sue]

binary_star Wrote:

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> If anyone would like to complain using RM's online

> form (it took me ages to find the URL and

> helpfully, it's NOT the one provided by their

> telephone customer services)

xxxxxxxx

Oooooh - you can complain about that as well :))

[DJKillaQueen]

lol good point.

[Huguenot]

Hmm. It's probably worthwhile being specific on the Living Wage in London - because it is an official figure distributed by the GLA through the Mayor's office.

The figure is currently ?7.85 - which amounts to ?16,328 per year.

So according to Sue's wage summary, posties do earn above the 'Living Wage'.

If you want to know how it's calculated, you can find it here.

[Ridgley]

I wrote directly to there Head Office, received a to my surprise a good response they even allocated me a code so if this happens again they will take direct action not sure if this will actually happen but a result.

[Sue]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> Hmm. It's probably worthwhile being specific on

> the Living Wage in London - because it is an

> official figure distributed by the GLA through the

> Mayor's office.

>

> The figure is currently ?7.85 - which amounts to

> ?16,328 per year.

>

> So according to Sue's wage summary, posties do

> earn above the 'Living Wage'.

>

> If you want to know how it's calculated, you can

> find it here.

xxxxxxxxx

OK, I didn't even know there was an actual calculated "living wage", so as there is, maybe I should have called postie pay something else, like "absolutely rubbish pay" for working "very long hours" :))

[Sue]

Ridgley Wrote:

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> I wrote directly to there Head Office, received a

> to my surprise a good response they even allocated

> me a code so if this happens again they will take

> direct action not sure if this will actually

> happen but a result.

xxxxxxx

I've always had a good response whenever I've had cause to complain to Royal Mail (which I haven't had lately).

[longea]

It true what you said about this incident because it's not new to sometimes ago Iused to work for Royal Mail and during my work training I saw one of the Delivery Driver slip a 739 slip true the door without knocking the customer's door and I personally know about and it's very common among the delivery drivers and some lazy post master. Have'nt said some of them did that because they have been in the job for a longer period and the delivery manager can't do anything about it. My best advice is that if this happens againg go straight to the delivery office and report the driver and you ask the delivery manager to reply back to you in writing if not satisfied you can ask the district manager to look at your complaint.

Cheers

[Alex K]

@Longea: Thanks for that. As the OP, who wrote (paraphrased) "Can't be sure what was slipped through the door as I watched, but is it a shared impression that 'delivery attempts' by Royal Mail personnel may be faked?", it's of interest to learn from you that, yes, fakery is "very common among the delivery drivers".

Now, were you ever REALLY in Royal Mail work training? "On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog." But -- trusting that most who post here are who they say they are, and stand behind what they post -- again, I thank you.

As to opinions on what constitutes a proper wage, here is a phrase that I enjoyed when living in the German Democratic Republic (technical training; 1987; three months in Dresden): "They pretend to pay us, we pretend to work."

[Twirly]

Thanks for that link to the BBC binary_star. Although this has happened several times to me, I've not as yet complained. Next time, I will make sure that I do. I suspect that the article only reflects the tip of the iceberg, and it would be useful if everyone complained so the true scale of the problem could be revealed. If they try and deliver during the week, we will be out at work, so I've not got a problem with that - it's when they pop a note through on a Saturday morning that it frustrates me, as we then have to wait a whole week to go and get our parcel, as Saturday morning is the only time we can go to the sorting office.

As for the "living wage" in London, that doesn't sound so liveable to me, but that's another discussion.

I wonder if the post office have thought about alternatives to the current system? I totally agree with DJKQ's point that we pay for an item to be delivered, not for the recipient to have to collect it. But what if there was a reduced rate of postage that meant that you expected to have to collect the item? This would certainly work for me, as if the postie does try to deliver during the week, I'm normally at work so have to go to the office anyway. So an e-mail informing me that I've got a parcel to collect (thus cutting down on man hours/pollution from the vehicle delivering the notes) would be great. Although so would the sorting office being open late one evening a week so that it's not just Saturdays you can collect. If I order something online, I always have to provide an e-mail address anyway.

[Jeremy]

40hrs a week doesn't sound excessive to be honest.

[nymom]

The Forest Hill sorting office is now open late one night per week. I saw a sign posted the last time I was there. I believe it was Wednesdays but you should double check.

[Sue]

longea Wrote:

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> It true what you said about this incident because

> it's not new to sometimes ago Iused to work for

> Royal Mail and during my work training I saw one

> of the Delivery Driver slip a 739 slip true the

> door without knocking the customer's door

xxxxxx

But the postman concerned has come onto this thread and explained that this is not what he was doing, so it's not "true what you said about this incident".

I can't understand why people continue to ignore his post (no pun intended).

Just because some postal workers sometimes do this when they shouldn't does not mean that they all do it all the time, and nor does it mean that it was what happened in this case, because clearly it wasn't.

[EDKiwi]

The East Dulwich one is open 8am-8pm Wednesdays and until 2pm on Saturday now, not sure when it changed but got a card yesterday and was able to go collect in the afternoon.

[Sue]

Twirly Wrote:

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> Saturday morning

> is the only time we can go to the sorting office.

>

xxxxxx

The Sylvester Road office is now open till 8pm on - I think - Wednesday nights.

It's also now open till 2pm on Saturdays, though that's probably less useful.

ETA: Sorry, crossed post!

[Twirly]

Thank you EDKiwi and Sue - I didn't know that and it's really useful. It's been a month or so since I last had to go down there, but I don't think it indicated late openings on a Wednesday on the card, so I suspect that they may be using old stocks up.

[Sue]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> 40hrs a week doesn't sound excessive to be honest.

xxxxxx

If my calculations are right, that's 8am to 5pm allowing an hour unpaid for lunch (sorry but I can't be arsed to double check if that's correct).

But posties also work - or used to - very unsocial hours. Possibly this has all changed, but there used to be shifts starting about 5am, plus overnight shifts.

40 hours may not be "excessive", but most workers are on 35 hours a week - aren't they?

Obviously it's different for management jobs where you put in whatever hours are necessary to get the job done. But your pay level then reflects that.

[Sue]

Twirly Wrote:

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> Thank you EDKiwi and Sue - I didn't know that and

> it's really useful. It's been a month or so since

> I last had to go down there, but I don't think it

> indicated late openings on a Wednesday on the

> card, so I suspect that they may be using old

> stocks up.

xxxxxxx

The first time I noticed it was actually today, when I had to go and collect a packet - looked at the card to double check when they closed, and saw they were open longer hours some days.

[DJKillaQueen]

40 hours may not be "excessive", but most workers are on 35 hours a week - aren't they

I don't know anyone that works a 35 hour week, very few private sector jobs are less than 40 hours and they make up 80% of the Labour force. I really do think that public sector workers are in la la land in terms of the average working conditions and hours for most workers in this country. That doesn't mean to say that we should all be happy to be overworked and/or underpaid of course, but until unions start to fight for better working conditions for ALL workers, most private sector workers will continue to balk at some of the claims of 'hard done by' made by the public sector.

Just because some postal workers sometimes do this when they shouldn't does not mean that they all do it all the time, and nor does it mean that it was what happened in this case, because clearly it wasn't.

The point is that NO postal workers should be doing this, and every time they do, it costs their employer in compensation (which is perhaps why Royal Mail seem to take the issue seriously).