"While you were out" -- Royal Mail false delivery attempts

[Sue]

Alex K and DJKQ, did you actually read what EDDORDC posted, or did you read what you wanted to read?

And Alex K, dragging in Wittgenstein just makes you look a t**t.

ETA: And you are, it seems, calling EDDORDC a liar. That makes you look even more of a t**t.

[Alex K]

Oh, Sue. How much you care about this!

Why does invoking Wittgenstein, whose philosophy was that there IS no objective truth, bother you so?

**grin** Du hast Recht, ich hab' meine Ruhe. You're in the right, I'm left in peace.

Mad hugs! And may your post never be mis-delivered.

[Sue]

Ah. So you are a total tw*t, then ......

[DJKillaQueen]

I didn't misread the OP but I did get mixed up with the following comments on the practise by Royal Mail of putting collection cards through letterboxes instead of delivering parcels/ recorded delivery items. This IS something Royal Mail does and it is unacceptable.

[ianr]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> I didn't misread the OP but I did get mixed up with the following comments on the practise by

> Royal Mail of putting collection cards through letterboxes instead of delivering parcels/

> recorded delivery items. This IS something Royal Mail does and it is unacceptable.

You seem now to be trying to direct our attention to other than the point raised with you.

Your post of 20/10 18:14, "Still doesn't change the fact that no attempt was made by Royal Mail to deliver the item", seemed, to at least both Sue and myself, to say that you were not accepting the truth of EDDORDC's immediately preceding post. You've so far avoided answering our inferences that in so doing you had either misread that post or had read it accurately and then accused him/her of lying. In the absence of a contrary response, I'll assume the latter.

[pk]

Alex K Wrote:

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> Please re-read my initial posting.

>

i dunno if i am the only one but it all seems slightly stalkerish to me, do you make a habit of keeping notes about the comings and goings at your neighbours?

"The driver of Royal Mail van LB05 LLJ has just now -- 1320, Saturday 16 October -- hopped out of his vehicle, walked briskly to my neighbour's door on Abbotswood Road, and... has not rung, has not knocked, has only pushed a slip of paper through the cache-sexe on the letterbox and pootled off again."

[Huguenot]

Sorting out the Royal Mail sounds like a pretty challenging job. It's losing ?262m a year, and has an ?8bn pension deficit.

The public want a universal service and village post offices, but are unwilling to pay for it.

Workers don't want to work antisocial hours, don't want to carry heavy bags, want more people to cover their outrageous sickness rates, and want higher salaries. They don't want new technology and they don't want to be a 'service' business.

Temporary staff steal anything that they think might have value, and occasionally have the nerve to rip the envelope open, steal the value item, and still deliver the letter!!

The Unions are refusing privatisation because it will introduce a battle over rubbish working practices that the government isn't prepared to take part in as the owner, because it would lose them votes.

The government think giving the workers shares will help solve the problem, but underestimate the witlessness of the guys who'll simply cash it in for an alcohol fuelled blast in Tenerife.

The company usually has an ugly confrontational culture, but then the public lambast the generous helpful posties who pop around the corner at unusual hours to deliver a parcel notification.

What a mess.

BTW, if you don't want to receive your mail during the day, just leave it on the mat until the following morning eh?

[peckhamboy]

Blimey. It's all getting a bit heated in here.

EDDORDC - well done for coming on here and sticking up for yourself.

On this occasion, it looks like the OP put 2 and 2 together and came up with 93, and consequently owes you an apology.

It is also, however, true that RM has developed an incredibly frustrating habit/policy of simply refusing to deliver parcels. I don't know whether this is down to individual posties I don't know. It could be that the decision is made at sorting and the postie simply has the card pre-filled and thrown in with the letters for delivery. Perhaps EDDORDC could shed some light on this?

[Penguin68]

I have just 'missed' a delivery from the private carrier Hermes (in the sense that a note was pushed through the door, but an adult daughter sitting downstairs heard no attempt to ring/ knock).

It's a general problem about delivery individuals (on occasion) not really caring - it's certainly not restricted to Royal Mail staff - neither are these staff always, or even in my experience frequently, at fault. It's hugely annoying when it does happen. If I am expecting a delivery (I wasn't, today) I put a note on the door to urge the driver to 'ring and knock loudly, there is someone in' - this does seem to work. But I can't do that when the delivery is unexpected.

[DJKillaQueen]

If I send a parcel I expect the deliverer to knock on the dorr and only leave a card if the person is not at home...that's what I pay for. With Royal Mail that is not what always happens. I can;t think of any other postal/ courier service I have used where this happens (and I've used quite a few). I also find that for larger parcels, using a courier service with an included as standard 48 hour delivery guarantee costs no more than Royal Mail's seven day parcel force service (that's why so few businesses use Royal Mail anymore).

Yes the OP was mistakenly pointing to an example of this and the delivery driver has posted to explain that in this instance it wasn't what the OP thought. But the therad has prompted others who have experienced the practise alluded to by the OP and that for me is what this therad has now become about.

[tomdhu]

I have just become a victim, once again, of this little fiddle.

I was at home (on my knees wiring up a network socket) in the room immediately adjacent to the front door. I heard footsteps on the pebbles in the front yard as someone walked up to the front door. This was immediately followed by the sound of the flap on the letter box dropping back down. No door bell ring or knock whatsoever. Having already had a delivery of letters a couple of hours earlier, I was intruiged to find out what had come through the letter box. I took a break from what I was doing, got up and went to the front door in what was less that 20 seconds.

I noticed a red card had been delivered and immediately recollected the recent posts to the forum. The card indicated that a packet could not be deilvered because "It's too large".

So I thought, great, if I am quick I'll be able to catch the postie and get the package. Got outside and looked around. No postie or post van in sight. Whoever it was was b****y quick!

Based on this and the comments in earlier posts, it suggests that the cards are written out in advance and the packages are not actually in the van and therefor not actually available to be delivered.

So, like a lot of others, I'll have to turn up at Sylvester Road sorting office some time Saturday.

Are they working a nice little earner involving overtime on the Saturday or there some other angle?

If they can't be @rsed to provide the service that they are paid to provide, why does Royal Mail continue to exist at all?

[Pearson]

For what it's worth, i've never had any problems with Royal Mail.

When i read the OP a few days ago, it did seem strange the he was

confident enough to post about a letter which wasn't even addressed to him...

Which in turn left me thinking he was just looking for an excuse to rant about posties??

EDDORDC - Top man for posting your side of events.

I have nothing but praise for the postmen i have encountered on my road (Rodwell Rd)

There is one particular postie who i really like always smiles, friendly and chatty too.

[DJKillaQueen]

You are lucky to have a good service Pearson. Unfotunatley though Royal Mail is not a good service because some sorting offices do exactly what tomdhu has just described. Tom when you go to the sorting office ask for the name of the delivery driver for that day. Tell them you are going to formally complain that no attmpt was made to deliver the item. Also, recommend that the sender of the item makes a claim to Royal Mail for a refund of the postage paid.

[tomdhu]

Thanks for the advice DJKQ.

What sticks in my craw is that only a few months ago RM postal workers were given a very very generous payoff by the Labour government, including:-

a) 7% pay increase.

b) Reduction of 1 hour in the working week.

c) A gift of ?2,500 for accepting modernisation.

d) Improved maternity and paternity arrangements.

e) Guarantee of no enforced redundancies.

On top of this they will all receive gold-plated final salary pensions that we tax payers are having to pay for.

No wonder the economy is in hole.

[tomdhu]

Update.

It has been suggested that when the sorting office doesn't have a driver available or if their parcel van has is out of service, they hire a casual to go out on foot with the red cards with the cards already written out but with the time only added when he gets to the door of the recipient. Card gets popped though your letter box and the door bell doesn't get rung.

[McCatllar]

This ruse has happened to me loads of times...last time a couple of weeks ago. Recorded delivery, but the door bell not rung, just a note shoved through the door.

I think I may print all these comments off and send them to the complaints part of the Post Office. Clearly there is major problem here.

[DJKillaQueen]

Royal Mail need to put a stop to this practice. It is NOT what senders are paying for. Recorded delivery is just that DELIVERY AT THE RECORDED ADDRESS. You pay extra for that service. It's a scam and every time it has happened to me I've helped the sender to claim a refund of postage from RM. They always pay up because they know it goes on.

[Huguenot]

It appears that this is not a policy of the Royal Mail, it's a practice pursued by errant employees. This from the Daily Telegraph a year ago:

The Royal Mail urged consumers, who feel they have been duped, to complain with full details of their postcode and postman by calling its complaint number of 08457 740 740

A spokesman said: "If there any incidents of this happening, we need to know. We want to deal with this. We always promise to deliver all parcels and packets, as well as letters, to people's homes. That's absolutely our policy."

He added that any postman who was found to have not only incorrectly posted a "Sorry, you were out" card, but also left his parcels at the sorting office, would be disciplined.

"It is a clear breach of our code. They will be disciplined, and if the circumstances merit it, they will face the sack," he said.

Consumer Focus, the Government watchdog, said it was formally raising the problem with the company, as well as with the regulator Postcomm. Consumer Focus believes that the Royal Mail, by allowing postmen to mislead consumers in this way, has broken its license agreement ? something that should be penalised the regulator.

[Sue]

tomdhu Wrote:

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> Thanks for the advice DJKQ.

>

> What sticks in my craw is that only a few months

> ago RM postal workers were given a very very

> generous payoff by the Labour government,

> including:-

>

> a) 7% pay increase.

> b) Reduction of 1 hour in the working week.

> c) A gift of ?2,500 for accepting modernisation.

> d) Improved maternity and paternity arrangements.

> e) Guarantee of no enforced redundancies.

>

> On top of this they will all receive gold-plated

> final salary pensions that we tax payers are

> having to pay for.

>

> No wonder the economy is in hole.

xxxxxxxxx

Do you have any idea what pay level the 7% is being added to? And what the current working week is?

I suggest you do a bit of research on the pay and conditions of posties, and then come back onto this thread and let us all know whether you still think this is so terribly bad - and more to the point, whether you'd be willing to do the job for this pay.

[DJKillaQueen]

To be fair though, postmen are paid to do a job and some of them aren't doing it. It's hard to have any sympathy for that.

[Sue]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> To be fair though, postmen are paid to do a job

> and some of them aren't doing it. It's hard to

> have any sympathy for that.

xxxxxxxxxx

Yes, but that didn't appear to be the point that tomdhu was making, and he hasn't come back in response to my post.

[DJKillaQueen]

I think the essence of his point (although he'll have to confirm that) was that given that they have been given some improvements in pay etc that they have no excuse for delivering poor service (or cutting corners)?

[binary_star]

While I was out today the postie 'delivered' a book from Amazon to my doorstep. Since it rained most of the afternoon, I came home to find my new book soggy and warped from the rain. I've complained about my local post service before through RM's online form but received no response whatsoever. Seems pretty pointless to me if no action is going to be taken.

[binary_star]

Seems we're not the only ones to have noticed: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11419324

[DJKillaQueen]

I found the following explanation particularly galling.

"Sometimes, van drivers deliver lots of packages to the same address. If they're constantly trying to deliver and not getting an answer, they might assume people aren't ever in," he told the BBC.

"The driver might fill out a form and give it to the postman to deliver on his round. If the postie delivers the form and the person's in, it can be embarrassing when they don't have the package on them."

Another situation is when the van tries to deliver the package in the afternoon but no-one is in, so they give the form to the postman to deliver on his round the next day.

The form refers to the attempted delivery the day before, but people think the postman should have the package on him.

On every occasion that I've caught the card with no parcel postman, on NO ocasion was there an attempted delivery the day before...so that is bs for a start and what amazes me is that they don't seem to understand that when someone pays the extra postage for delivering their parcel they are paying for DELIVERY not collection. Just do the job you are paid to do guys and if you don't like it, look for another ffs.